(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]RU[Chinese]SZ[19]KM[0.50]TM[300]OT[3x30 byo-yomi]PW[MilanMilan]PB[kghin]WR[9d]BR[8d]DT[2010-04-24]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]RE[B+Time];B[pd]BL[297.85]C[MilanMilan [9d]: hi];W[dp]WL[295.909]C[kghin [8d]: hi];B[qp]BL[295.108];W[oq]WL[288.956];B[cd]BL[289.814];W[ed]WL[287.755];B[ec]BL[287.097];W[dd]WL[286.882];B[dc]BL[284.684];W[ce]WL[285.273];B[cc]BL[271.112];W[fd]WL[283.399];B[gc]BL[268.743];W[cj]WL[278.54];B[ej]BL[246.552];W[dn]WL[268.463];B[kq]BL[226.434];W[po]WL[239.809];B[qo]BL[222.543];W[pn]WL[238.543];B[qm]BL[219.126]C[Q161 [?]: who else is watching topalov/anand right now?];W[qq]WL[237.364]C[hosainogo: no one :)];B[pp]BL[192.178]C[mof [4d?]: man... black.... has no progress.Q161 [?]: :P];W[op]WL[223.873];B[pq]BL[190.647];W[qn]WL[222.798];B[rn]BL[189.06];W[pr]WL[196.461];B[qr]BL[187.314]C[iancho [1d]: have you a link Q161?];W[pm]WL[185.626];B[rm]BL[176.085]C[Q161 [?]: http://www.anand-topalov.com/en/live.htmlQ161 [?]: http://www.chessok.com/broadcast/?key=sofia2010_01.pgn&game=0];W[nr]WL[178.631];B[ps]BL[174.531];W[or]WL[177.614]C[iancho [1d]: thanks];B[rq]BL[170.788]C[Q161 [?]: first with video second has rybka analysis too];W[iq]WL[170.748];B[ko]BL[169.018]C[KoReNJe [3d]: kghin is turning into a pro :pKoReNJe [3d]: 2 more years];W[pk]WL[163.566]C[Moonfish [1d]: j5 big];B[io]BL[161.917]C[Blaubaer [5d]: he wrote that he doesnt want to become a pro];W[gq]WL[145.476];B[hr]BL[147.118]C[BCEushi [3d?]: don't know who would want to..KoReNJe [3d]: hm];W[hq]WL[131.458]C[Namii [-]: does beating a pro before he turned pro as a pro trophy?];B[jq]BL[144.848];W[ir]WL[128.872]C[Moonfish [1d]: o5Moonfish [1d]: orn ot];B[cq]BL[130.154];W[dq]WL[123.945]C[KoReNJe [3d]: go has no future :ptoyoya [?]: imhm...KoReNJe [3d]: just like books];B[el]BL[106.771]C[Moonfish [1d]: or culture...Tabemasu [7d]: You can say that about alot of professions :)];W[cl]WL[118.803]C[ZeNit [3d]: or the EarthBlaubaer [5d]: i think he has prostrengh even now];B[nn]BL[87.919];W[no]WL[114.818];B[mn]BL[79.607];W[nl]WL[113.035];B[nj]BL[66.047];W[nk]WL[106.06]C[ibd [7k?]: o10?];B[oj]BL[61.469];W[ll]WL[103.621]C[KoReNJe [3d]: q8Moonfish [1d]: maybe not far from pro but still kid's greed :p];B[jl]BL[43.93];W[ql]WL[95.189];B[pj]BL[37.047];W[lj]WL[88.531]C[KoReNJe [3d]: b nice formingKoReNJe [3d]: he's almost as good as me];B[pf]BL[21.833];W[jn]WL[82.1]C[Moonfish [1d]: ahah ;)Moonfish [1d]: nice peep];B[in]BL[30]OB[3]C[Moonfish [1d]: m6 ];W[kn]WL[61.647];B[jo]BL[30]OB[3];W[ln]WL[48.852];B[lo]BL[30]OB[3]C[Blaubaer [5d]: anyone seen the leesedol vs changhao fight?];W[kl]WL[39.715]C[KoReNJe [3d]: milan having a bad day?BCEushi [3d?]: from when, blaubaer?];B[ik]BL[30]OB[3];W[mo]WL[31.013]C[Blaubaer [5d]: today on oro];B[bp]BL[30]OB[3];W[cr]WL[28.918];B[br]BL[30]OB[3];W[cp]WL[27.774];B[bq]BL[30]OB[3];W[dr]WL[25.245];B[bn]BL[30]OB[3]C[Blaubaer [5d]: rather nice one imo];W[bs]WL[6.068]C[aap [2k]: who wonBlaubaer [5d]: sedolhubbleday: sedol of course];B[cf]BL[30]OB[3]C[fye [2d]: was a crazy fighthosainogo: what they were playing for?];W[gn]WL[0.795]C[KoReNJe [3d]: c7hubbleday: bc card cup];B[gm]BL[30]OB[3]C[hosainogo: ty];W[fm]WL[30]OW[3]C[hubbleday: best of 5];B[gl]BL[30]OB[3]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: Again? >.>Blaubaer [5d]: whats the score there hubbleday?tint [16k]: q17 ];W[id]WL[30]OW[2]C[hubbleday: they played the first game todayfye [2d]: Blaubaer, what do you think of Lee Sedol's deep invasion?];B[gd]BL[30]OB[3]C[Blaubaer [5d]: ok thx :-)];W[mc]WL[30]OW[2]C[KoReNJe [3d]: milan playing really bad];B[oc]BL[30]OB[3];W[hb]WL[30]OW[2];B[gb]BL[30]OB[3];W[qc]WL[30]OW[2]C[hubbleday: le sedol has won like 20 games straing since his returnBlaubaer [5d]: i never saw him play shinogi ... but it was as usual - interesting :-)];B[qd]BL[30]OB[3];W[ob]WL[30]OW[2];B[nb]BL[30]OB[3];W[pb]WL[30]OW[2];B[nc]BL[30]OB[3];W[mb]WL[30]OW[2];B[ma]BL[30]OB[3];W[rd]WL[30]OW[2];B[re]BL[30]OB[3];W[rc]WL[30]OW[2]C[fye [2d]: hahaYamaxanadu [-]: Isn't that called sabaki?KoReNJe [3d]: l17];B[md]BL[30]OB[3];W[ld]WL[30]OW[2];B[lc]BL[30]OB[3];W[lb]WL[30]OW[2];B[kc]BL[30]OB[3];W[me]WL[30]OW[2];B[nd]BL[30]OB[3];W[kd]WL[30]OW[2];B[jc]BL[30]OB[3];W[jd]WL[30]OW[2]C[fye [2d]: Lee Sedol's shinogi often involve killing the opponent's wall though];B[ci]BL[30]OB[3]C[Blaubaer [5d]: yes :-)];W[bi]WL[30]OW[2];B[ch]BL[30]OB[3]C[Blaubaer [5d]: easily overlooked ....];W[dj]WL[30]OW[2]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: It looks to me like white is ahead];B[ei]BL[30]OB[3];W[dl]WL[30]OW[2]C[goblinking [1k]: maybe depends on the status on E16 ...];B[hf]BL[30]OB[3]C[Blaubaer [5d]: upper left is bid tooKoReNJe [3d]: b greatfye [2d]: now it's tough];W[ic]WL[30]OW[2]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: yeah >.>];B[kb]BL[30]OB[3];W[ig]WL[30]OW[2];B[if]BL[30]OB[3];W[kg]WL[30]OW[2];B[ih]BL[30]OB[3];W[bh]WL[30]OW[2]C[SeoTaiji [1k]: black is leading];B[bg]BL[30]OB[3];W[di]WL[30]OW[2];B[dh]BL[30]OB[3];W[eh]WL[30]OW[2]C[Blaubaer [5d]: for me too];B[jg]BL[30]OB[3]C[goblinking [1k]: what does w expect with E12 ?];W[jh]WL[30]OW[2];B[hg]BL[30]OB[3]C[sunray [7k]: aji];W[kh]WL[30]OW[2]C[goblinking [1k]: a gote move to create an aji ?Youanoy [6k]: connect with e15?goblinking [1k]: conect with a dead group ?];B[ok]BL[30]OB[3]C[Blaubaer [5d]: nothing at b15 or so?];W[fh]WL[30]OW[2]C[goblinking [1k]: probably];B[ah]BL[30]OB[3];W[fk]WL[30]OW[2];B[ek]BL[30]OB[3]C[typohh [7k]: b winning clearly if he can kill f16 group?];W[fl]WL[30]OW[2];B[em]BL[30]OB[3]C[KoReNJe [3d]: aaa];W[en]WL[30]OW[2]C[fye [2d]: w possibly aiming at J7?];B[gj]BL[30]OB[3]C[Blaubaer [5d]: w wants j9 group?];W[eg]WL[30]OW[2]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: I was think E13 :DYouanoy [6k]: b15...:)fye [2d]: clever!SeoTaiji [1k]: wow niceKoReNJe [3d]: messupxaxadan [2d]: e13 ^^Yamaxanadu [-]: *thinking];B[bj]BL[30]OB[3];W[fj]WL[30]OW[2]C[fye [2d]: winning empty triangle];B[fi]BL[30]OB[3];W[gi]WL[30]OW[2]C[Youanoy [6k]: d13?Wiggum [6k]: lol];B[gk]BL[30]OB[3];W[fn]WL[30]OW[2];B[ol]BL[30]OB[3];W[om]WL[30]OW[2]C[xaxadan [2d]: funny!SeoTaiji [1k]: he ressurected all his groupibd [7k?]: e13 makes the cut possible?SeoTaiji [1k]: 6 stones extra bonus];B[kf]BL[30]OB[3]C[ibd [7k?]: or what does it do];W[lf]WL[30]OW[2]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: yes, ibd];B[lg]BL[30]OB[3];W[ke]WL[30]OW[2]C[SeoTaiji [1k]: Q8 big?];B[jf]BL[30]OB[3];W[mg]WL[30]OW[2]C[bayu [?]: it makes b's cut at g12 impossible];B[pl]BL[30]OB[3]C[ibd [7k?]: and it also htreatens b15?];W[hi]WL[30]OW[2]C[Namii [-]: D14 is a funny move for w, black can't reply at B15];B[mk]BL[30]OB[3];W[ml]WL[30]OW[2]C[Namii [-]: or can, with a price];B[kk]BL[30]OB[3]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: ?xaxadan [2d]: why?Yamaxanadu [-]: Namii :D];W[ii]WL[30]OW[2]C[jkx [2d]: double atari in a wayNamii [-]: there is a funny snapbackgoblinking [1k]: namii : B12and b11 are deadKoReNJe [3d]: b totaly screwed it up];B[lk]BL[30]OB[3]C[fye [2d]: c13 would be double atariYamaxanadu [-]: Oh... the atari, right?];W[jj]WL[30]OW[2]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: Yeahnewlife [2d]: oh!Lentyi [1k]: w+res =(];B[jk]BL[30]OB[3]C[typohh [7k]: one problem with that, b dont resignYamaxanadu [-]: But... then wouldn't black be able to basically connect with b6 ?Q161 [?]: rofl typo];W[jm]WL[30]OW[2];B[im]BL[30]OB[3];W[mm]WL[30]OW[2]C[KoReNJe [3d]: hmNamii [-]: Yes, sure. that's why it was only a funny moveKoReNJe [3d]: alive in senteKoReNJe [3d]: ok b's last chance];B[nh]BL[30]OB[3];W[mj]WL[30]OW[2]C[Ersain [11k]: ._.Yamaxanadu [-]: LIVE >o.>typohh [7k]: t16?KoReNJe [3d]: messupPeiling [3d]: ouchfye [2d]: wowwotan123 [2d]: ...hmYamaxanadu [-]: Never saw it in this orderMoonfish [1d]: owCookiex [-]: whahaha];B[sf]BL[30]OB[3]C[Cookiex [-]: pwnddaladim [1d]: dohBlaubaer [5d]: y t16?];W[qe]WL[30]OW[1]C[KoReNJe [3d]: greed killswotan123 [2d]: ;-)newlife [2d]: milan says: that's enoughCookiex [-]: thats gotta hurt];B[qf]BL[30]OB[3]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: Yes, it does];W[se]WL[30]OW[1]C[Lentyi [1k]: NOw its very big koPeiling [3d]: this can only be described as wtfisoparm [2k]: Highly experimental.];B[lm]BL[30]OB[3];W[km]WL[30]OW[1];B[re]BL[30]OB[3];W[hj]WL[30]OW[1]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: :O];B[hk]BL[30]OB[3]C[typohh [7k]: huge gamble for 1 point?Namii [-]: At least w is not in shortage of threats];W[se]WL[30]OW[1]C[typohh [7k]: no, make it 2 pointsYamaxanadu [-]: Where's the other eye?Wiggum [6k]: bottomYamaxanadu [-]: Oh yeah];B[mi]BL[30]OB[3]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: :P];W[li]WL[30]OW[1];B[re]BL[30]OB[3]C[evr [5k?]: think t16 was preparation for a corner attack];W[fb]WL[30]OW[1]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: *"supposed to be"?jdsvf: hanami kou?wotan123 [2d]: yesNamii [-]: W is also in danger];B[fc]BL[30]OB[3];W[se]WL[30]OW[1]C[goblinking [1k]: if w loose the ko, his group is dead ?];B[mh]BL[30]OB[3]C[wotan123 [2d]: some kind of flower ko];W[lh]WL[30]OW[1];B[re]BL[30]OB[3]C[Artemis57 [13k]: H7...Blaubaer [5d]: w is happy to get back in the gameWiggum [6k]: h6jdsvf: flower viewing];W[lr]WL[30]OW[1]C[Warfreak2 [5d]: go milan!Lentyi [1k]: Boo!Sukudo [8k?]: h6 ?];B[mp]BL[30]OB[3]C[BCEushi [3d?]: hanami? isn't that the japan wide sake drinking festival when the sakura bloom?];W[se]WL[30]OW[1];B[np]BL[30]OB[3]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: heh..." "Go" Milan" :P];W[oo]WL[30]OW[1];B[re]BL[30]OB[3];W[ip]WL[30]OW[1]C[Pzkfw [5k]: you must be newNamii [-]: Festival for flower viewing ;-)];B[jp]BL[30]OB[3];W[se]WL[30]OW[1];B[nm]BL[30]OB[3]C[hubbleday: kinda late to be up for the kidwotan123 [2d]: sake festival, sound good];W[on]WL[30]OW[1];B[re]BL[30]OB[3];W[lq]WL[30]OW[1];B[lp]BL[30]OB[3]C[cos90 [-]: g12 .??];W[se]WL[30]OW[1]C[BCEushi [3d?]: greatest excuse all year for them to get drunk];B[ee]BL[30]OB[3]C[dragonslay [-]: c13];W[de]WL[30]OW[1];B[re]BL[30]OB[3]C[Gogotaplo [5k]: i do'nt understand ...meuns [1k?]: white leadsGogotaplo [5k]: middle group is dead :s ?];W[hn]WL[30]OW[1]C[Namii [-]: BCEushi: You should come to Finland];B[hm]BL[30]OB[3]C[polik: white won the ko easily];W[se]WL[30]OW[1]C[jkx [2d]: e8 is deadGogotaplo [5k]: ohGogotaplo [5k]: thankswotan123 [2d]: fins need no excuse?];B[rg]BL[30]OB[3]C[Namii [-]: We have around 10 of those];W[sg]WL[30]OW[1];B[rh]BL[30]OB[3]C[Namii [-]: "excuses to get drunk"ibd [7k?]: ouchhh];W[ng]WL[30]OW[1];B[og]BL[30]OB[3]C[BCEushi [3d?]: the japanese do too];W[oh]WL[30]OW[1]C[evr [5k?]: finland in itself is an excuse to get drunk :)];B[ni]BL[30]OB[3]C[xaxadan [2d]: over];W[jb]WL[30]OW[1];B[la]BL[30]OB[3]C[wotan123 [2d]: hihigoblinking [1k]: g19 ?Stable [2k]: I only have 7 excuses. Monday, Tuesday...polik: black would have won without that ko right ?];W[ga]WL[30]OW[1];B[mr]BL[30]OB[3];W[da]WL[30]OW[1]C[EiC11D [9k]: D9 was a kotefol [5k]: milaqn too stongtypohh [7k]: even when ko started I thinktefol [5k]: even without klo, milan winsdeft [3d]: I counted W+3.5];B[ja]BL[30]OB[3]C[KoReNJe [3d]: ??ibd [7k?]: koYamaxanadu [-]: K.O.goblinking [1k]: where are b eyes for C17 ?];W[fa]WL[30]OW[1]C[Blaubaer [5d]: not sure w wonwotan123 [2d]: ko in round 7Lentyi [1k]: Lo];B[ib]BL[30]OB[3]C[KoReNJe [3d]: what a beautiful suicide];W[hc]WL[30]OW[1]C[newlife [2d]: b doesn't hv enough threats!Kevinaiter [12k]: kooooonewlife [2d]: y he always want ko?isoparm [2k]: Kooooooo Fiiiiiiiight.jdsvf: w had to make a ko?deft [3d]: playing this way is the only chance for BKevinaiter [12k]: black can make oneRosario [2k]: b is too freedy or not?Draxt [4k]: this ko is really big];B[ca]BL[30]OB[3]C[Kevinaiter [12k]: awwRosario [2k]: *greedyWarfreak2 [5d]: uh];W[cb]WL[30]OW[1]C[isoparm [2k]: Eh?deft [3d]: backing down here = resignWarfreak2 [5d]: yeahFireTiger [1k]: ?FireTiger [1k]: b deadYamaxanadu [-]: Another ko? >.>];B[ha]BL[30]OB[3];W[ia]WL[30]OW[1]C[Kevinaiter [12k]: lawlChoMama [-]: some say: without ko, it's not go];B[db]BL[30]OB[3]C[Lentyi [1k]: Damn];W[ba]WL[30]OW[1];B[ha]BL[30]OB[3]C[lGreenTeal [9k]: *0*];W[ai]WL[30]OW[1]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: My ko threat is.... ko];B[aj]BL[30]OB[3];W[ia]WL[30]OW[1]C[FireTiger [1k]: ?polik: bad threat];B[dg]BL[30]OB[3]C[FireTiger [1k]: why not kill?isoparm [2k]: Nice threat.];W[gf]WL[30]OW[1]C[polik: lolFireTiger [1k]: nice replyKoReNJe [3d]: hahagoblinking [1k]: w should have played D13 as ko threat first ..xaxadan [2d]: hahaisoparm [2k]: Hehehe.typohh [7k]: that reply must hurtWarfreak2 [5d]: super tesujiKoReNJe [3d]: toasted];B[ha]BL[30]OB[3]C[Larrave [1k]: prosujiwotan123 [2d]: hmnewlife [2d]: lol];W[bf]WL[30]OW[1]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: a14 next threat >.>polik: ignor ?];B[ff]BL[30]OB[3]C[Warfreak2 [5d]: a14 will not be a threat];W[gg]WL[30]OW[1]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: Well, not now :.>KoReNJe [3d]: aaaa];W[ia]WL[30]OW[1]C[newlife [2d]: very terribleisoparm [2k]: now h12KoReNJe [3d]: damn that's weak movetypohh [7k]: why doesnt w a15 kill?Kevinaiter [12k]: h1222Warfreak2 [5d]: because black b11 makes two eyes];B[ea]BL[30]OB[2]C[Thorvald [7k]: w a15 and koYamaxanadu [-]: ;DWarfreak2 [5d]: notypohh [7k]: I meant the other side obv];W[eb]WL[30]OW[1];B[ha]BL[30]OB[2]C[goblinking [1k]: a15 is no kill];W[ae]WL[30]OW[1]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: I called it :>KoReNJe [3d]: a15 was huge for b];B[bi]BL[30]OB[2];W[ia]WL[30]OW[1];B[ck]BL[30]OB[2]C[KoReNJe [3d]: hahaLarrave [1k]: ignore?Rawrie [2k]: ignoreKoReNJe [3d]: what a bad moveAguydude [6k]: Huge because it kills g17stringbean [-]: tradespartano [3k]: ignore!!!!!!!!!!];W[ha]WL[30]OW[1]C[fye [2d]: it'll be interesting if w ignorewotan123 [2d]: igor];B[dk]BL[30]OB[2]C[KoReNJe [3d]: hahahaxaxadan [2d]: hahahatwinkle [3k]: donefye [2d]: hahaYamaxanadu [-]: big >.>pwnz0r [1k]: h12 was a good threat no?isoparm [2k]: argtypohh [7k]: so, the other side did dieAguydude [6k]: f15Draxt [4k]: F15?Thorvald [7k]: arfRawrie [2k]: d7 neccessaryleito [1k]: omgWapiFlapi [-]: this WILL end in resign obviously :pKoReNJe [3d]: b couldnt find a worse movebarakeel [2d]: maybe blcak can live or kill];W[bb]WL[30]OW[1]C[Q161 [?]: d7Aguydude [6k]: f15 avoids worrying about semeaitaiji [1d]: w winned easyPzkfw [5k]: :OBlaubaer [5d]: d7Guichocha [2d]: that's enough, KorenjeWarfreak2 [5d]: why b18];B[dm]BL[30]OB[2]C[vovanduc [4k]: g12Warfreak2 [5d]: except as a passwotan123 [2d]: R.I.Pevr [5k?]: so much stuff going on there it smells like seki :P];W[of]WL[30]OW[1]C[zzzzzza [4k]: w won];B[pg]BL[30]OB[2];W[cn]WL[30]OW[1]C[Yamaxanadu [-]: One is brought to death, one is brought back to life];B[cm]BL[30]OB[2];W[bo]WL[30]OW[1]C[sagesse [-]: oh i missed it all is b dead upper left?];B[ao]BL[30]OB[2]C[goblinking [1k]: yesKoReNJe [3d]: lol?Q161 [?]: ouch];W[co]WL[30]OW[1]C[Pzkfw [5k]: ;|ibd [7k?]: hahaRawrie [2k]: Called it \o/Aguydude [6k]: nice try, milanQ161 [?]: UTTEGAESHIYamaxanadu [-]: I didn't even see that >.>newlife [2d]: both bigDraxt [4k]: more koKoReNJe [3d]: this is becoming kyu game];B[nf]BL[30]OB[2]C[Tabemasu [7d]: b18 needed, or B can make a koZeroWave [11k]: o1?];W[ne]WL[30]OW[1]C[polik: ko againDragonYao [1k]: hite has more than enough though?polik: a4DragonYao [1k]: white*Warfreak2 [5d]: ko for whatLarrave [1k]: easy win for whitenewlife [2d]: b takes many stones, so does white];B[oe]BL[30]OB[2]C[polik: ko for b3 group];W[ms]WL[30]OW[1]C[barakeel [2d]: a17?wotan123 [2d]: w is coolTabemasu [7d]: h12 g12 b18 c19 a16 a18 a17 Larrave [1k]: white killed quarter boardnewlife [2d]: and b saved a groupibd [7k?]: where's b's second eye in the top left?Kevinaiter [12k]: none..];B[fe]BL[30]OB[2]C[barakeel [2d]: is it seki?Aguydude [6k]: After w a16, m13 is an eye. Fun stuffGuichocha [2d]: where's his first eye?];W[ad]WL[30]OW[1]C[DragonYao [1k]: top left has no eyes...Yurial [3k?]: omgbarakeel [2d]: ahDragonYao [1k]: hahaibd [7k?]: a19 is an eyewotan123 [2d]: ...Yurial [3k?]: nmWarfreak2 [5d]: okDraxt [4k]: H12DanielTom [4d]: n2 is the winning movejorgin: ?barakeel [2d]: now two eyevovanduc [4k]: g12];B[kr]BL[30]OB[2]C[DragonYao [1k]: oh wowAguydude [6k]: M16 also an eye];W[ho]WL[30]OW[1]C[DragonYao [1k]: two eyed dragon];B[js]BL[30]OB[2]C[vovanduc [4k]: g12?sagesse [-]: all around him?]];W[is]WL[30]OW[1];B[ls]BL[30]OB[2]C[sixsix [-]: so, one more ko at A2?DragonYao [1k]: m15 m13 e19 c19 a18 are all eyes nowtaiji [1d]: kokokokoeastwisdom [6d]: false eyes to livewotan123 [2d]: yesnewlife [2d]: very funny];W[ap]WL[30]OW[1]C[DragonYao [1k]: yes, as they connect in a cricle];B[aq]BL[30]OB[2]C[wotan123 [2d]: nice to see in a real gameAguydude [6k]: They aren't false eyes.newlife [2d]: very rareGuichocha [2d]: we are lucky to see this :)];W[re]WL[30]OW[1]C[Stable [2k]: Life by circular false eyes. :)Warfreak2 [5d]: they aren't false eyes since h15 is dead ;-)polik: yes they are aguyAguydude [6k]: Even if h15 was alive they would be eyes];B[of]BL[30]OB[2]C[DragonYao [1k]: well, they wouldn't be false anyways, as they are connected];W[mf]WL[30]OW[1]C[Aguydude [6k]: d19 is connected to c18BCEushi [3d?]: rough count, w winning bigStable [2k]: But it's only dead because they are eyespolik: just 1 eye at a18FlameBlade [-]: the false eyes in a circle is only reason that white can kill H15...Warfreak2 [5d]: if b is alive inside, they are false eyes dragonyaoPzkfw [5k]: they play in in that there's no semedoriStable [2k]: and they're eyes because it's deadjorgin: nojdsvf: surrounding false eyes vs surrounded eye, who wins];B[pc]BL[30]OB[2]C[jorgin: they are real eyesDragonYao [1k]: war freak, even if they are false eyesDragonYao [1k]: white is aliveZeroWave [11k]: a2?Blaubaer [5d]: if b is alive inside w is alive toogolover [?]: count money];W[ar]WL[30]OW[1]C[Warfreak2 [5d]: yes white is alive with false eyesvovanduc [4k]: why B no G12];B[as]BL[30]OB[2]C[jorgin: hmSukudo [8k?]: the are real eyes];W[an]WL[30]OW[1]C[DragonYao [1k]: >.< they are real eyesDragonYao [1k]: as you can't ever play at them];B[bn]BL[30]OB[2]C[Warfreak2 [5d]: they would be false eyes, if b was alive insideBlaubaer [5d]: very rarewotan123 [2d]: so the false become realYurial [3k?]: hey are falsecosmicrayn [5k]: hahaSimoff [2k?]: nice move];W[ar]WL[30]OW[1]C[Guichocha [2d]: they are not falseDragonYao [1k]: i see what you are saying...Aguydude [6k]: No, they are real eyes (regardless of b life) because the stones are connected.Yamaxanadu [-]: h12 is black's biggest threat];B[ac]BL[30]OB[2]C[Pyv [3d?]: black has a lot of threats DragonYao [1k]: but it makes no sensejdsvf: they are false];W[bc]WL[30]OW[1]C[Warfreak2 [5d]: whether or not an eye is false is a local propertyYamaxanadu [-]: f13 Guichocha [2d]: please take a moment to think about what "false eye" meansYurial [3k?]: 234678 on numpad - is falsevZ [1k]: W forms so calles 2-heads dragon and have 2 eys!Yamaxanadu [-]: f13 DragonYao [1k]: they are false in the sense that they don't look realrogeko [4k]: w live];B[ab]BL[30]OB[2]C[jorgin: there is no generally accepted definitionKoReNJe [3d]: aKoReNJe [3d]: what theDragonYao [1k]: but they function as real eyestaiji [1d]: stangejorgin: but yours is inconsistentKoReNJe [3d]: dead in goteAguydude [6k]: C18, b19, d19 are connected in a long, circular route. Since all surrounding stones are connected, eyes are realrogeko [4k]: it s not a sekixaxadan [2d]: ???barakeel [2d]: takeYamaxanadu [-]: Aww... two kos D:ibd [7k?]: lol more false eyeKoReNJe [3d]: dead in gote :pRawrie [2k]: a4rogeko [4k]: w alivetypohh [7k]: what is b doing?Warfreak2 [5d]: you seem to think that the falseness of an eye should depend on stones far awaycosmicrayn [5k]: g12?Stable [2k]: w can ignore?FlameBlade [-]: white can ignore thisrogeko [4k]: by fals eyesDrH0use [2d]: h12 apoplexy [2k]: can't ignoreDragonYao [1k]: they count as points, that's all that mattersleito [1k]: mistake?sagesse [-]: a18 a threat?dann [2d]: wowtaiji [1d]: move!ChoMama [-]: there's no definition of a false eyes?apoplexy [2k]: yesdann [2d]: beautifulKoReNJe [3d]: hahajdsvf: wtfibd [7k?]: time hahaKoReNJe [3d]: timesujiDragonYao [1k]: ignore...wolfe [1k]: B hallucinating or desparate...elido: G12Voron [1k]: lagvovanduc [4k]: seki?leachy [6k]: "local false" but not "global false" as the "false eyes" don't disconnect the group as it is connected at the other side of the circlesmartrobot [9d?]: ？chibikota [4k]: b g12?smartrobot [9d?]: ?Kevinaiter [12k]: ????????xaxadan [2d]: no timeKevinaiter [12k]: ???????????FireTiger [1k]: ?Yamaxanadu [-]: >.>Ersain [11k]: ._.ZeroWave [11k]: lagkghin [8d]: ?rogeko [4k]: wa4Voron [1k]: milan have lagRawrie [2k]: White can not ignoregojunkie: B can get 1 eye Seki then?stringbean [-]: g12 vulnerable?runaway [6k]: O.ojdsvf: come onPeiling [3d]: w got disconnectedlGreenTeal [9k]: delayYamaxanadu [-]: Flood :Oxaxadan [2d]: hahahahawotan123 [2d]: local and globalKoReNJe [3d]: what a beautiful win by bTiger5k [5d]: h12Kevinaiter [12k]: spam morevovanduc [4k]: h12 ?newlife [2d]: com'on!Warfreak2 [5d]: determining if an eye is false or not should not be NP completeYamaxanadu [-]: *uses surf*rogeko [4k]: w+ a4vZ [1k]: quite a remarkable case - never have seen it in the real gamedann [2d]: both groups have 1 eyeDragonYao [1k]: REALLY DOES NOT MATTER >. hello jdsvf: play wWarfreak2 [5d]: yes, it's called the dragon eating its own tail, it's life with false eyesKoReNJe [3d]: another pill of steroids :pemre35 [4d]: h12Yamaxanadu [-]: Nuuuuuuwotan123 [2d]: hmYouanoy [6k]: ?Peiling [3d]: !Yurial [3k?]: ....twinkle [3k]: timeeevZ [1k]: W can take a4 just for free!DragonYao [1k]: it really doesn't matterlGreenTeal [9k]: ??FireTiger [1k]: ?taiji [1d]: argh!Yamaxanadu [-]: again >.>spartano [3k]: ???Earnest [2k]: Black is dead, corrent?Peiling [3d]: wth!DragonYao [1k]: can we just stop?Yamaxanadu [-]: xDWapiFlapi [-]: another lag :/daselecter [2k]: i read a book in which they said that there were weapons of mass destruction in irakjdsvf: guys stop laggingDragonYao [1k]: white is alive, regardless of if black has two eyes are notWarfreak2 [5d]: dragonyao, this is an example of false eyes that make life that count as pointsgo2loveu [1k]: lagggggKarl05 [1d]: all eyes are realdaselecter [2k]: black deadvovanduc [4k]: B deadStable [2k]: Ourobouros.DragonYao [1k]: and the wotan123 [2d]: mass destructionJupiter743 [?]: A4Aguydude [6k]: I feel like this is a terminology debate rather than an understanding debate. Seems almost pointless.Earnest [2k]: how can black possibly have two eyes?KoReNJe [3d]: lets go spam another gamePeiling [3d]: it is pointlessYurial [3k?]: i tend to trust 5ds...Jupiter743 [?]: a4sagesse [-]: why should white respond to this ko threat now?WapiFlapi [-]: Earnest : he cantbarakeel [2d]: terminology onlytaiji [1d]: aguy that is every debatekryft [1k]: Aguydude, Warfreak2 is a mathematician, so terminology is very important. ;)wildwind [2k]: maybe b must h12 first ? BCEushi [3d?]: lol, this is a good threatDragonYao [1k]: the "false eyes" make points AND make life, so they should be treated as real eyes, regardless of if they look like themgoblinking [1k]: if mian has this kind of lagproblem .. since the game seems lost, b should maybe resign ...daselecter [2k]: b dead!deft [3d]: W is living with false eyesWapiFlapi [-]: kghin backBlaubaer [5d]: this kothreat wasnt that bad .....Mahtar [10k]: F13 is black alive?FlameBlade [-]: the game is very close.Warfreak2 [5d]: your argument against it being false eyes that make life, seems to be that there is no example of false eyes making lifeEarnest [2k]: never seen this before... a circle of false eyes will liveEarnest [2k]: this is onedaselecter [2k]: thats all, CLONE by yourselves anc check itThorvald [7k]: w disconnect and connect with another account to see how to playThorvald [7k]: (joke)FireTiger [1k]: b winning according to SEYamaxanadu [-]: I don't think there's anything here for blackAguydude [6k]: Warfreak: Point, my argument is circularChoMama [-]: if it's alive, they CAN'T be false...jdsvf: w timeAguydude [6k]: kryft: I'm a computer scientist with a philosophy degree. Not sure what that says.madcow [1k]: a circle of false eyes is aliveThorvald [7k]: add time !Jupiter743 [?]: ????????Jupiter743 [?]: ??DragonYao [1k]: no, my point is that defining a term that isn't practical is pointlesswotan123 [2d]: circular arguments are the bestJupiter743 [?]: ?????????????????Tabemasu [7d]: W is winning by a lotDragonYao [1k]: they function like real eyes, therefore they arePeiling [3d]: wth...FireTiger [1k]: ??typohh [7k]: b wins big if he wins the ko without major concessions.kryft [1k]: Aguydude, That you should write books on Python.sunray [7k]: laf 4 secs milan done when they come backdaselecter [2k]: yes 7dan aprovalibd [7k?]: chinese rules rule out SEAguydude [6k]: DragonYao: Your argument is just as circular as mine.isoparm [2k]: This is a tricky one.Jupiter743 [?]: ???????????????Yamaxanadu [-]: Stop building all this suspense D:ItoMakoto [2d?]: kghin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!jdsvf: internet connection is stronger than 9dThorvald [7k]: ^^Jupiter743 [?]: lag???????????superdupon [2d]: kghin should resignwildwind [2k]: ^^charleshu [4d]: b G11, then F13?superdupon [2d]: it would be smartssk15 [8k]: black is in a eyeItoMakoto [2d?]: BTtaiji [1d]: data cable can't hold such complex thoughtsItoMakoto [2d?]: B=TItoMakoto [2d?]: B+TFlameBlade [-]: actually, not close at allYamaxanadu [-]: =? xDwotan123 [2d]: i think milan wants ,that kghin resignKamus [7k]: b g12Gatsu55 [10k]: how much is winning w by now?ChoMama [-]: kghin should be given a medal for patienceFlameBlade [-]: just actually counted];W[gh]WL[30]OW[1]C[DragonYao [1k]: black is up];B[as]BL[30]OB[2]C[KoReNJe [3d]: haha];W[bm]WL[30]OW[1]C[taiji [1d]: hahaKoReNJe [3d]: he responded there?];B[an]BL[30]OB[2]C[Aguydude [6k]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?TwoHeadedDragon calls them real eyesZeroWave [11k]: finally];W[ar]WL[30]OW[1]C[KoReNJe [3d]: omg so weakYamaxanadu [-]: *sigh*Jupiter743 [?]: opppgoblitz [2k]: why did he respond?elido: yes i was rightleachy [6k]: like i said "local false" but not "global false" as the "false eye" doesn't disconnect the group ( it is joined around the other side so no need to fill in your "false eye")Rawrie [2k]: BecauseDragonYao [1k]: he did not have tocharleshu [4d]: must respondsunray [7k]: wow that was crazy nice to not time out by w];B[qb]BL[30]OB[2]C[Rawrie [2k]: The dragon would've diedRawrie [2k]: he had toWarfreak2 [5d]: groups with two eyes living in a normal way, those are real eyes, to say this group is alive with real eyes misses an important topological feature of the life];W[rb]WL[30]OW[1]C[stringbean [-]: because of the throw in at g12Rawrie [2k]: That just proved he had toDragonYao [1k]: rawrie];B[as]BL[30]OB[2]C[KoReNJe [3d]: it's cuz of the blitz];W[sh]WL[30]OW[1]C[Warfreak2 [5d]: which is that the group would not be alive if it were simply-connectedDragonYao [1k]: i'll open demoRawrie [2k]: kkcharleshu [4d]: G11 f13 will turn all eyes to false eye];B[si]BL[30]OB[2]C[FireTiger [1k]: good threat];W[ar]WL[30]OW[1]C[Larrave [1k]: i dont get it why white had to respond];B[ra]BL[30]OB[2]C[Tabemasu [7d]: I don't think he had tostringbean [-]: you cant win both of them thoughBlaubaer [5d]: hm is it ko after b g12ßisoparm [2k]: He had to methinks.MilanMilan [9d]: sry for long time lagKTS [1d]: taketypohh [7k]: threat to make a ko?Beannie [-]: I think because he reconnected and though arrgh play quick quick lag arrghhLarrave [1k]: no ko after g12FireTiger [1k]: captureTabemasu [7d]: g12 h12 f13 a19 g12 g13 g14 g12 jdsvf: oh noFireTiger [1k]: ?taiji [1d]: D:dawid963 [2k]: lag wotan123 [2d]: ...leachy [6k]: yes one needs to compute homotopy groups to determine lifeKTS [1d]: oppsFireTiger [1k]: ouchmadcow [1k]: holyshitZeroWave [11k]: gahYouanoy [6k]: :(Peiling [3d]: ?jdsvf: wtWapiFlapi [-]: sad :'(fye [2d]: ...Lovelybaby [7k]: .....................................Yurial [3k?]: ...Tabemasu [7d]: lolwotan123 [2d]: hmkghin [8d]: ?asdfv: nooooooooooooooKoReNJe [3d]: hahahahaharishna [9k]: sadmadcow [1k]: fuckLovelybaby [7k]: lolleachy [6k]: oopsLovelybaby [7k]: ><""taiji [1d]: ;((((((Pzkfw [5k]: pwntYamaxanadu [-]: *Surf*barakeel [2d]: ...... Warfreak2 [5d]: homology will do, leachyMilanMilan [9d]: ?wotan123 [2d]: wtflonghuong [4k]: lagkghin [8d]: you winPeiling [3d]: that was the worse way to loseKoReNJe [3d]: poor kghin so weakgoblinking [1k]: bad victory pointsTaro [-]: languagekghin [8d]: sorryMilanMilan [9d]: your group deadLovelybaby [7k]: :(pebarefoot [-]: 2 in a row, go kgisoparm [2k]: Faster internet wins.Larrave [1k]: milan why g12?ItoMakoto [2d?]: hahahahmadcow [1k]: that's cheating!KoReNJe [3d]: kghin shame u didn't resign :pchon107 [2k]: black leadingLovelybaby [7k]: >.<"jdsvf: really sadsuperdupon [2d]: you should sometime resign kghinItoMakoto [2d?]: I LOVE KGHINwotan123 [2d]: one of the most strange gamesFlameBlade [-]: black not leading at allLovelybaby [7k]: WE LOVE MILANLovelybaby [7k]: XDLentyi [1k]: LOLItoMakoto [2d?]: GOD OF VICTORY KGHIN!Peiling [3d]: Milan the best!wotan123 [2d]: we feel all with milanchon107 [2k]: SE says thatBlaubaer [5d]: hm no need for w g12 ??DragonYao [1k]: milan, g12 mistake, no?sagesse [-]: one more!)isoparm [2k]: Interesting game though.Lovelybaby [7k]: yes!!fye [2d]: interesting game barakeel [2d]: i love kghin winMilanMilan [9d]: it's weirdWapiFlapi [-]: (guy maybe we should stop talking and let them discuss there game ... )ItoMakoto [2d?]: GOOD MANNERtaiji [1d]: MUST REMATCHBlaubaer [5d]: gg 4 white Lovelybaby [7k]: milan is the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ZeroWave [11k]: for the love of god, stop the kibbitzing... why G12?Yamaxanadu [-]: Someone should press Ctrl+Mwotan123 [2d]: revenge!!!jdsvf: k guys shut upMilanMilan [9d]: his group deadmadcow [1k]: let's riot@!!!!karabos [1k?]: he runs out of time but really a good go playerLovelybaby [7k]: we knowmadcow [1k]: KILL THE SERVERWarfreak2 [5d]: g12 is a pass, milan?wotan123 [2d]: riotThorvald [7k]: no fair play by bLovelybaby [7k]: o.oMilanMilan [9d]: G12MilanMilan [9d]: mean passKoReNJe [3d]: a18 so weakFlameBlade [-]: alive without eyes...very rare.KoReNJe [3d]: can't believe b played h15DragonYao [1k]: hehe, a18 was pretty badEarnest [2k]: review?twinkle [3k]: 5d can not read why G12 ? :|Lentyi [1k]: Why you play G12 than)Warfreak2 [5d]: twinkle, milan just told you it's a passKoReNJe [3d]: if black played a15, he might have a chance to wintwinkle [3k]: :DZeroWave [11k]: what does it mean, 'its pass'?MilanMilan [9d]: coz I wanna show him here not sekiInCenTive [1d]: ~_~isoparm [2k]: a 12 was interesting.MilanMilan [9d]: but b deadLentyi [1k]: Ok. nice gameisoparm [2k]: a 18 I mean.Lentyi [1k]: thank yousagesse [-]: i guess kghin khows that too)Artemis57 [13k]: nice milaninthecage [3d]: black wins if he wins the ko?Blaubaer [5d]: never seen this kind of shape :-)Yamaxanadu [-]: How do you comprehend all of this enough to actually play a move? >.>MilanMilan [9d]: nowotan123 [2d]: yes, we discussed only, are the false eyes terminology is now real eyestaiji [1d]: g15 dead very rare beauty killvZ [1k]: yes, W has 2 eys in a very rare waytwinkle [3k]: G12 is necessary ?KoReNJe [3d]: b had so many chances to wintwinkle [3k]: Milan ?MilanMilan [9d]: first he can't win the ko])