(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.50]TM[0]OT[3x20 byo-yomi]PW[GOallin]PB[kghin]WR[9d]BR[8d]DT[2010-03-11]PC[The KGS Go Server at  ]RE[B+Resign];B[od]BL[20]OB[3]C[kghin [8d]: hi];W[qp]WL[20]OW[3];B[de]BL[20]OB[3]C[GOallin [9d]: hi];W[do]WL[20]OW[3]C[flogo55: ecstatic is goallin?];B[dq]BL[20]OB[3];W[cq]WL[20]OW[3]C[asdf2000 [1d]: probably not];B[op]BL[20]OB[3];W[oq]WL[20]OW[3]C[asdf2000 [1d]: they were both online at the same time a while ago at least];B[pp]BL[20]OB[3];W[pq]WL[20]OW[3];B[qo]BL[20]OB[3];W[nq]WL[20]OW[3];B[rp]BL[20]OB[3];W[qq]WL[20]OW[3];B[pj]BL[20]OB[3];W[qc]WL[20]OW[3]C[China1D [6d]: 20s game kghin will be destroyed];B[qe]BL[20]OB[3]C[Aliecotia [1k]: black playing is creative];W[re]WL[20]OW[3]C[Aliecotia [1k]: never seen this position];B[qd]BL[20]OB[3];W[oc]WL[20]OW[3]C[Woodrose [5d]: you must be new here];B[pc]BL[20]OB[3];W[pb]WL[20]OW[3]C[Katte [1d]: is s 15 normal?];B[pd]BL[20]OB[3];W[rb]WL[20]OW[3]C[ickypoo [2k]: standard joseki];B[ob]BL[20]OB[3];W[rd]WL[20]OW[3];B[pa]BL[20]OB[3];W[qb]WL[20]OW[3]C[okiol [4k]: who must be new?];B[nc]BL[20]OB[3];W[qg]WL[20]OW[3];B[cm]BL[20]OB[3]C[tywin [1d]: s15 standard? Really?];W[dp]WL[20]OW[3];B[eq]BL[20]OB[3];W[bp]WL[20]OW[3];B[dc]BL[20]OB[3];W[dj]WL[20]OW[3];B[ch]BL[20]OB[3]C[Katte [1d]: haha your reaction same as mine];W[dl]WL[20]OW[3]C[jyaan [3k]: not that i know of];B[hq]BL[20]OB[3];W[qm]WL[20]OW[3]C[jyaan [3k]: p17 or q16 are the joseki i know];B[on]BL[20]OB[3];W[om]WL[20]OW[3];B[pm]BL[20]OB[3];W[qn]WL[20]OW[3];B[po]BL[20]OB[3];W[pl]WL[20]OW[3];B[pn]BL[20]OB[3]C[jyaan [3k]: i've never heard of s15 joseki];W[ql]WL[20]OW[3]C[vatansever [10k]: fast and beatiful...jyaan [3k]: maybe it's something new but i dont think so];B[ol]BL[20]OB[3];W[nm]WL[20]OW[3]C[LionelLee [6k]: who is killing whojyaan [3k]: top right looks really good for b ifyou ask me];B[pk]BL[20]OB[3]C[Quaternion [4k]: w b];W[rn]WL[20]OW[3];B[ro]BL[20]OB[3];W[rj]WL[20]OW[3]C[okiol [4k]: top left looks better!];B[mo]BL[20]OB[3];W[mm]WL[20]OW[3]C[jyaan [3k]: they work together];B[nk]BL[20]OB[3]C[okiol [4k]: ah, turefascinat [9d?]: s6 emergencyokiol [4k]: all of top looks good! :)];W[qi]WL[20]OW[3];B[lp]BL[20]OB[3];W[lq]WL[20]OW[3]C[jyaan [3k]: if w play on the top, b can push him into thickness];B[lk]BL[20]OB[3]C[poirette [1d]: emergency? what do you mean?];W[km]WL[20]OW[3];B[kq]BL[20]OB[3]C[jyaan [3k]: needed eye shape];W[kp]WL[20]OW[3];B[ko]BL[20]OB[3];W[jp]WL[20]OW[3];B[jo]BL[20]OB[3]C[jyaan [3k]: or he would probably die];W[ip]WL[20]OW[3]C[zum [?]: poker vs go];B[lr]BL[20]OB[3];W[mq]WL[20]OW[3]C[jyaan [3k]: go wins that obviously..];B[jr]BL[20]OB[3];W[hp]WL[20]OW[3];B[gp]BL[20]OB[3];W[go]WL[20]OW[3]C[zum [?]: if he can read his poka face ...];B[jm]BL[20]OB[3];W[gq]WL[20]OW[3]C[okiol [4k]: how does go beat poker?];B[gr]BL[20]OB[3]C[zum [?]: 4k doesnt get itkinglao298 [2k?]: larger stakes?];W[iq]WL[20]OW[3];B[fq]BL[20]OB[3];W[ir]WL[20]OW[3];B[fo]BL[20]OB[3]C[mooooo [10k]: w thinks he wins with pocket aces but then BAM b gets a flushokiol [4k]: wow, zum, that's probably top 20 of the lamest thing I've read];W[kl]WL[20]OW[3];B[gn]BL[20]OB[3];W[no]WL[20]OW[3]C[kovala [6k]: 4k doesnt read :P :)tywin [1d]: Oh. You really must be new to the whole internet thing, then :)okiol [4k]: now, that is funny ;)];B[nn]BL[20]OB[3];W[mn]WL[20]OW[3];B[np]BL[20]OB[3];W[mp]WL[20]OW[3];B[lo]BL[20]OB[3];W[in]WL[20]OW[3];B[jn]BL[20]OB[3];W[kk]WL[20]OW[3]C[okiol [4k]: no, that what's so amazing, I'm spending way too much time on internet, none of the other on the top 20 list are even from KGS, so congratulations, zum];B[io]BL[20]OB[3];W[li]WL[20]OW[3];B[mi]BL[20]OB[3];W[mh]WL[20]OW[3];B[nh]BL[20]OB[3];W[mg]WL[20]OW[3];B[lj]BL[20]OB[3];W[kj]WL[20]OW[3]C[kinglao298 [2k?]: u realyy pissed him off...zum [?]: okiol needs therapyesmeralda [3k?]: go go kghing];B[ki]BL[20]OB[3];W[lh]WL[20]OW[3];B[rk]BL[20]OB[3];W[rl]WL[20]OW[3]C[okiol [4k]: well anyway, only way go beat poker is that it takes longer time to become an elite , top player, but that could be because poker is newer];B[ni]BL[20]OB[3];W[ng]WL[20]OW[3];B[ji]BL[20]OB[3]C[mooooo [10k]: p4 killable?];W[ik]WL[20]OW[3]C[mooooo [10k]: p3* i meanQuaternion [4k]: m2 dead];B[og]BL[20]OB[3]C[poirette [1d]: this game is quite a fight...];W[of]WL[20]OW[3];B[pg]BL[20]OB[3];W[pf]WL[20]OW[3];B[pi]BL[20]OB[3];W[qf]WL[20]OW[3]C[zum [?]: kg always fights like crazy];B[nl]BL[20]OB[3]C[tywin [1d]: No, okiol, it's because the most important poker skills don't require knowledge, per se.];W[ld]WL[20]OW[3]C[harlej9 [-]: w has gained a lot comparing to the beginning];B[mr]BL[20]OB[3]C[Ross [7k]: true];W[nr]WL[20]OW[3];B[ho]BL[20]OB[3]C[mooooo [10k]: m2 realy daedokiol [4k]: I guess you haven't played a lot of poker then];W[js]WL[20]OW[3];B[ks]BL[20]OB[3]C[Kyuss [1k]: ko?hellas [7k?]: lol okiol rightIciac [6k]: Meet stronger players, and you'll be surprised at their probability knowledge :)soducls [3d]: noBuhariEX [2k]: k1 mistake?];W[rq]WL[20]OW[3];B[ek]BL[20]OB[3]C[lemming [2k?]: looks like itRoss [7k]: idk, I'd say that experience does help with poker, but there's a lot more to itArkienkeli [5k]: i won elky in pokerlemming [2k?]: j2 dead now :/];W[ii]WL[20]OW[3]C[okiol [4k]: it's true that the skills doesn't have as big impact at the result as in go though];B[lb]BL[20]OB[3];W[dk]WL[20]OW[3];B[ih]BL[20]OB[3]C[Kyuss [1k]: j2 could be saved with a ko, i think];W[hi]WL[20]OW[3];B[hh]BL[20]OB[3]C[flutinx [-]: no okKyuss [1k]: oh noflutinx [-]: ko];W[gh]WL[20]OW[3];B[gg]BL[20]OB[3]C[Kyuss [1k]: no KO, sorry :)];W[fg]WL[20]OW[3]C[tywin [1d]: Meh. The probability math is pretty simple - nowhere near the depth of knowledge you need for go.];B[gf]BL[20]OB[3]C[ManoNegra [7d?]: best poker players wear trucker caps... of course knowledge is not needed];W[fh]WL[20]OW[3]C[soducls [3d]: theres no ko white dead period];B[kd]BL[20]OB[3];W[ke]WL[20]OW[3];B[jd]BL[20]OB[3];W[ee]WL[20]OW[3]C[soducls [3d]: well poker u ned to no when to bluff and when to not];B[ed]BL[20]OB[3]C[lemming [2k?]: why are we talking poker now? look at the board! :)];W[fe]WL[20]OW[3];B[hd]BL[20]OB[3]C[Ross [7k]: good pointlemming [2k?]: will w even live?Arkienkeli [5k]: trucker caps fool your opponent to think they arent intelligent, its a tactictywin [1d]: Because we are easily sidetracked.Xoc [2k?]: because poker is in];W[he]WL[20]OW[3];B[ge]BL[20]OB[3];W[fd]WL[20]OW[3]C[Kyuss [1k]: zchen likes to play poker, and he's 8d KGS];B[fc]BL[20]OB[3]C[tywin [1d]: By pretty pictures.];W[gd]WL[20]OW[3]C[Arkienkeli [5k]: so];B[gc]BL[20]OB[3]C[Iciac [6k]: k3 results in l2 ko for life?];W[id]WL[20]OW[3]C[ManoNegra [7d?]: well... if wearing a cap is part of the strategy...Kyuss [1k]: also, Cornel told me he likes poker better than go now :)];B[hc]BL[20]OB[3];W[je]WL[20]OW[3]C[Iciac [6k]: My bad :)mooooo [10k]: same with women who say:" oh i never played poker befor. Hihihi i try to rais this time." you can be sure there are at least high skilled with pokerrustybrain [1d]: dramalemming [2k?]: oh];B[ff]BL[20]OB[3];W[ef]WL[20]OW[3];B[if]BL[20]OB[3];W[ie]WL[20]OW[3]C[okiol [4k]: it is more likely they actually never played poker before, moooo ;)];B[eg]BL[20]OB[3]C[tywin [1d]: Do people still fall for that, moo?];W[df]WL[20]OW[3]C[Fin2K [?]: sqeeze];B[cf]BL[20]OB[3];W[dg]WL[20]OW[3];B[dh]BL[20]OB[3];W[eh]WL[20]OW[3];B[cg]BL[20]OB[3];W[eg]WL[20]OW[3];B[ic]BL[20]OB[3];W[lc]WL[20]OW[3];B[kb]BL[20]OB[3];W[ce]WL[20]OW[3]C[Ross [7k]: thats a big loss];B[dd]BL[20]OB[3];W[be]WL[20]OW[3]C[lemming [2k?]: ok so who is ahead now :/Kyuss [1k]: e11 ?Arkienkeli [5k]: aw black make mistake?Kyuss [1k]: :D];B[ei]BL[20]OB[3];W[fj]WL[20]OW[3]C[Iciac [6k]: Argumentum ad verecundium ^^];B[ej]BL[20]OB[3]C[lemming [2k?]: e11 looks greedy];W[fk]WL[20]OW[3];B[di]BL[20]OB[3];W[cb]WL[20]OW[3]C[okiol [4k]: wow];B[db]BL[20]OB[3]C[Arkienkeli [5k]: black culd have got h12 alive i think];W[el]WL[20]OW[3]C[Kyuss [1k]: i think b is actually ahead];B[fl]BL[20]OB[3]C[lemming [2k?]: yeah feels like it];W[fi]WL[20]OW[3]C[lemming [2k?]: all b groups safe atmKyuss [1k]: specially after j2 diedlemming [2k?]: or dead :)];B[cj]BL[20]OB[3];W[bk]WL[20]OW[3];B[bj]BL[20]OB[3];W[bc]WL[20]OW[3]C[hellas [7k?]: may depend on the life of j12];B[ck]BL[20]OB[3];W[cl]WL[20]OW[3]C[Ignort [5k]: h12 will never live without being a couple ko threats..];B[bl]BL[20]OB[3];W[bm]WL[20]OW[3];B[ak]BL[20]OB[3];W[cn]WL[20]OW[3]C[Kyuss [1k]: oh no..  w lived in the cornerKyuss [1k]: maybe w ahead nowdragonslay [-]: j2 can be ko no?lemming [2k?]: xDlemming [2k?]: changes so quicklyKyuss [1k]: no, dragonKillooQ [3k]: F7dragonslay [-]: k3dragonslay [-]: l3dragonslay [-]: n1Kyuss [1k]: k3 l2 n1 j1 ];B[ab]BL[20]OB[2]C[Arkienkeli [5k]: j12 dead?Quaternion [4k]: b j10?dragonslay [-]: h1Windir [1d]: m15 works?mooooo [10k]: j12 all dead?];W[bf]WL[20]OW[3]C[Iciac [6k]: j1 is atari, dragon :)lemming [2k?]: yes, j12 all deadsoducls [3d]: h1 h2Arkienkeli [5k]: black make mistake];B[bg]BL[20]OB[2];W[cd]WL[20]OW[3]C[Arkienkeli [5k]: earlierdragonslay [-]: l2 then kotywin [1d]: m15 does not work.Kyuss [1k]: nopetywin [1d]: m15 n15 m14 l14 Kyuss [1k]: listen... k3 l2 n1 j1 lemming [2k?]: there is no ko at l2];B[gk]BL[20]OB[2]C[Iciac [6k]: Clone the game to test it, dragonmooooo [10k]: looked so good for b.];W[hk]WL[20]OW[3];B[qk]BL[20]OB[2];W[sk]WL[20]OW[3]C[evanj [2d]: whoa, when did kghin start playing 5-4?!];B[le]BL[20]OB[2];W[me]WL[20]OW[3]C[hiss [-]: w+10Kyuss [1k]: since his opponent played it too];B[lf]BL[20]OB[2];W[kf]WL[20]OW[3]C[kentia [4k]: surely w winning thistywin [1d]: *cough*];B[af]BL[20]OB[2]C[Ignort [5k]: kghin opened with 2 5-4sKyuss [1k]: yes, he was behind 10 pts before the upper left lived];W[ae]WL[20]OW[3]C[Kyuss [1k]: so it must be even nowKyuss [1k]: b18 ??];B[cc]BL[20]OB[2]C[okiol [4k]: that's bigger than 10 pts];W[bb]WL[20]OW[3];B[ca]BL[20]OB[2]C[Kyuss [1k]: its about 10 ptssoducls [3d]: w dead?Iciac [6k]: b18 caught in follow updragonslay [-]: a17?Kyuss [1k]: w died! yay, go kghinQuaternion [4k]: b h10??];W[ag]WL[20]OW[3]C[lemming [2k?]: a17 only 1 eye];B[ba]BL[20]OB[2];W[bh]WL[20]OW[3];B[ci]BL[20]OB[2];W[ai]WL[20]OW[3]C[Iciac [6k]: b18 c17 c19 b19 a19 a17 b19 d19 okiol [4k]: only the points black lost is more than 10Kyuss [1k]: oh man, semeai];B[aj]BL[20]OB[2]C[hellas [7k?]: yes b h10evanj [2d]: nosoducls [3d]: w died];W[sp]WL[20]OW[3]C[Quaternion [4k]: h10 g8];B[so]BL[20]OB[2]C[okiol [4k]: hmmm don't know what happened now though xD];W[sq]WL[20]OW[3];B[oo]BL[20]OB[2]C[lemming [2k?]: so now b ahead again? XD];W[sn]WL[20]OW[3];B[no]BL[20]OB[2]C[BuhariEX [2k]: white killed himself...Kyuss [1k]: so it seems];W[am]WL[20]OW[3]C[lemming [2k?]: you think so?zum [?]: w never alivelemming [2k?]: how could've w been alive?];B[bi]BL[20]OB[2]C[BuhariEX [2k]: should've a16 insyead of a15 hellas [7k?]: g8 j10lemming [2k?]: still only 1 eye thenhiss [-]: a15 was bad, no?];W[ms]WL[20]OW[3];B[is]BL[20]OB[2]C[Larrave [1k]: a12?];W[ml]WL[20]OW[3]C[BuhariEX [2k]: a16 maes life..BuhariEX [2k]: could make];B[qh]BL[20]OB[2]C[lemming [2k?]: ah yesdaladim [1d]: buhari righthiss [-]: he wanted to get moreIciac [6k]: w still have ko threats at leisure];W[ph]WL[20]OW[3]C[lemming [2k?]: <-- sucks @ L&D];B[rh]BL[20]OB[2]C[Windir [1d]: b will livejyaan [3k]: hahaKyuss [1k]: omg];W[oh]WL[20]OW[3]C[Ross [7k]: oh manhiss [-]: missed hane killerRoss [7k]: kghin rockin now];B[ri]BL[20]OB[2]C[Kyuss [1k]: im gonna go with B+RRoss [7k]: samejyaan [3k]: sweetsoducls [3d]: um..Ross [7k]: thats so hugekghin [8d]: thxjyaan [3k]: yea no kidding it's hugelemming [2k?]: well fought :)FraTeoX [3k]: boomrustybrain [1d]: A15 @ A16 no ?artichooo: niceArkienkeli [5k]: black make mistake in j12Arkienkeli [5k]: he culd make it aliverytm [?]: bravo!Ignort [5k]: i think he did alright...rustybrain [1d]:  A15 @ A16 looks promissingjyaan [3k]: still canhellas [7k?]: h10 g8 g10 j10 jyaan [3k]: make 4Eusebius [?]: after a16 b18 for black connects?Kyuss [1k]: no it doesntIgnort [5k]: ? g10 is self atariIgnort [5k]: nmrustybrain [1d]: Eusebius no there is a throw inKyuss [1k]: a16 b18 c17 c19 b19 a19 a17 Kyuss [1k]: to be exactrustybrain [1d]: rightjyaan [3k]: yeajyaan [3k]: kyuss is rightEusebius [?]: yes.jyaan [3k]: it worksjyaan [3k]: i just read itjyaan [3k]: hm whta about a16 c19jyaan [3k]: samejyaan [3k]: result just different orderjyaan [3k]: cya guysjyaan [3k]: i'm loggin])