(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]RU[Japanese]SZ[19]HA[2]KM[0.50]TM[1800]OT[5x60 byo-yomi]PW[breakfast]PB[Dore]WR[3p]BR[4k]DT[2013-06-03]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]AB[pd][dp]C[breakfast [3p]: great game!Rukis [2k]: glhf :D~Dore [4k]: please teach me]RE[W+Resign];W[po]WL[1773.307];B[cd]BL[1782.251];W[ed]WL[1752.672]C[hungt1 [2k]: is his job];B[ec]BL[1773.592];W[fc]WL[1739.104];B[dc]BL[1768.823];W[qf]WL[1735.748];B[nc]BL[1766.434]C[Rukis [2k]: hung its a guesture of appreciationhungt1 [2k]: i was being funny :/];W[fd]WL[1686.763]C[Euphony [2k]: I always wonder how to respond as white to F16 instead of O17. I suppose just double-pincer, and ignore the two white stones.];B[cf]BL[1761.417];W[jc]WL[1681.465];B[rd]BL[1759.451];W[qi]WL[1673.726]C[Euphony [2k]: Because tenuki after D17 seems like a good idea in opening, but it is hard after the cut at F16hungt1 [2k]: better you read more book of analysisEuphony [2k]: ok thanks, will do o.ohungt1 [2k]: i think invencible, book of honinbo shusaku should help you, but read the pro comments];B[fq]BL[1688.53];W[jp]WL[1658.074]C[hungt1 [2k]: i still did not read, but i read some pages, very helpfull commentsRukis [2k]: well Euphony white can tenuki or c16 e16 e17 f17 d17 r14 f16 g17 f15 k17 thats one way of doing ithungt1 [2k]: after i read that i got 1 stone stronger, i read 4 pageshungt1 [2k]: xD];B[qq]BL[1617.126];W[oq]WL[1639.483]C[hungt1 [2k]: r5?];B[qo]BL[1563.868];W[qn]WL[1629.012]C[Euphony [2k]: so Rukis, that sequence followed by O17 is better for black than the game, right?hungt1 [2k]: s6 s5 r4 s7 p4 JIeBuc [1d]: опа. брекфестJIeBuc [1d]: надо глянутьRukis [2k]: yeah it is but white will tenukihungt1 [2k]: ops i forgot q6hungt1 [2k]: s6 s5 r4 s7 q6 r7 p4 Rukis [2k]: hung they can see your comments];B[pp]BL[1472.591];W[op]WL[1609.762];B[rn]BL[1469.911];W[qm]WL[1601.15]C[hungt1 [2k]: ichungt1 [2k]: ok];B[rm]BL[1441.106]C[ChemBoy613 [-]: here the normal joseki is not as good];W[ql]WL[1560.74]C[mecisa [2k]: c5?hungt1 [2k]: s8 sente no?ChemBoy613 [-]: ssshhh talk about it after the move ^^hungt1 [2k]: -_-];B[km]BL[1255.849]C[hungt1 [2k]: honinbo shusaku moveJIeBuc [1d]: nahDore [4k]: thanks :phungt1 [2k]: np :)];W[qr]WL[1498.704]C[MARADONA [1d]: seems more like 4k move hungt1 [2k]: i wanted to make him feel confidenthungt1 [2k]: :/hungt1 [2k]: but you guys want to destroy dreamsDlayn [6k]: urg... i want to discuss >_<Euphony [2k]: What is wrong with L7?hungt1 [2k]: no ideahungt1 [2k]: actually i like l7hungt1 [2k]: even if w has forcing movesJIeBuc [1d]: b had to make that, but its goteDlayn [6k]: L7 seems prematureDlayn [6k]: ?Rukis [2k]: says a 6kRukis [2k]: :DDlayn [6k]: hey rukis!Euphony [2k]: perhaps better to play closer to black's area, is that it? Something like J6?];B[rr]BL[1131.793]C[Rukis [2k]: it kinda isEuphony [2k]: although J6 seems offTurnipsi [1d]: how can anyone have forcing moves against a single stone?Dlayn [6k]: im stronger than 6! im...just having problems ranking! >_<];W[rp]WL[1476.717];B[qp]BL[1129.491];W[rq]WL[1463.753]C[JIeBuc [1d]: so. 4k?];B[ro]BL[1121.629]C[hungt1 [2k]: don't be happy until you are at go seigen level];W[sr]WL[1449.127]C[Dlayn [6k]: lets go with that lol i havent gotten there but my games are all boring at my level :/Dlayn [6k]: "seigen"?Euphony [2k]: Well this shows the best move instead of L7 was to protect lower right, I guess.Izaya1128 [4k]: Can anyone reach Go Seigen's level these days?hungt1 [2k]: noRukis [2k]: yeah and im stronger then 2k my account is just stupidly heavy];B[rs]BL[1053.887]C[JIeBuc [1d]: y, just play 16 hours each dayhungt1 [2k]: make it to 20!Dlayn [6k]: mines light :( but i ike to through away my winning game with stupid movesRukis [2k]: ^ would love to, doesnt have finacial support thoughhungt1 [2k]: 16hours peer day looks greatDlayn [6k]: ^lolIzaya1128 [4k]: heck id go so far to say not even Lee Sedol or Gu Li could reach Go's level when he was in his prime];W[qs]WL[1416.74]C[hungt1 [2k]: but i have to buy food and work];B[pr]BL[1051.735];W[ss]WL[1389.459]C[JIeBuc [1d]: exactlyhungt1 [2k]: the question is, is really worth to study 16 hours of go peer day, without any guarante?hungt1 [2k]: u can be like a 3d at best, or get pro status, who know?Rukis [2k]: i would :Dhungt1 [2k]: test itx0000 [-]: you will never know until trybipbipbip [11k]: i think go pro players is poorbackpack1 [2d]: if u do 2 hours tsumego and play one game a day, u ll reach 3 dan in 1 year ^^];B[oo]BL[950.662]C[hungt1 [2k]: i don't know, depends on youRukis [2k]: Lee Sedol isnt poor biphungt1 [2k]: lee sedol is damm rich];W[pn]WL[1380.554]C[hungt1 [2k]: lol];B[or]BL[930.421]C[JIeBuc [1d]: i dont think so. u dont really need much money if u like u jobhungt1 [2k]: yes, but if u have a good life];W[mq]WL[1343.376]C[hungt1 [2k]: i like my job, but my life suckshungt1 [2k]: too expensivehungt1 [2k]: the place where i am living*];B[nr]BL[856.582]C[hungt1 [2k]: i play go like an rpg, to forget about my life, so i can forget anything while playing go, its like a drugDlayn [6k]: i think i can say this now, i dont like f3, i think i might of been better to approach LR but not sure because of Q% placementDlayn [6k]: Q5*];W[sp]WL[1310.646]C[Dlayn [6k]: not saying its bad but i dont think its doing enoughhungt1 [2k]: o3 Euphony [2k]: agreed, DlaynEuphony [2k]: that approaching lower right would have been better.NicolaiHel [3k?]: what does this match mean?hungt1 [2k]: teaching gameNicolaiHel [3k?]: mkeyhungt1 [2k]: and marketing hungt1 [2k]: moneyhungt1 [2k]: its the life];B[nq]BL[788.521]C[Dlayn [6k]: oooo marketingNicolaiHel [3k?]: let him live of go if he canhungt1 [2k]: do you know how many clicks at breakfast profile this day worth? alot of money broNicolaiHel [3k?]: prbly he deserves itNicolaiHel [3k?]: mkeyNicolaiHel [3k?]: didnt know];W[np]WL[1241.187];B[mp]BL[786.796]C[hungt1 [2k]: maybe i will pay some of breakfast lessons today];W[no]WL[1230.859]C[NicolaiHel [3k?]: heheRukis [2k]: well if it were i there would have been a fight at move 1hungt1 [2k]: i like b in this wayhungt1 [2k]: cus q3 will be big but gotehungt1 [2k]: L7 suits perfecthungt1 [2k]: is b a genius?Dlayn [6k]: how you gonna make a fight at move 1 rukis?????? lolJIeBuc [1d]: tengenhungt1 [2k]: he calculated all this moves with L7hungt1 [2k]: a trully shusakuRukis [2k]: Im rukis anything could happenDlayn [6k]: but...there would be only one stone on the board, it takes two to tango lolhungt1 [2k]: m3 n5 m4 m5 l5 q3 hungt1 [2k]: !!!!Dlayn [6k]: hush!Izaya1128 [4k]: It's most likely coincidence.Rukis [2k]: white wont m5..hungt1 [2k]: or just M4JIeBuc [1d]: lol. that was really shusaku movehungt1 [2k]: yeshungt1 [2k]: Man Dore is a geniushungt1 [2k]: :0oIzaya1128 [4k]: Dore is a very strong 4 kyulongkui [-]: lol he must be feeling proud with all this praisJIeBuc [1d]: oh. b is 4k. i thought 4dlongkui [-]: praise in the middle of a gamehungt1 [2k]: lol Jlehungt1 [2k]: the question ishungt1 [2k]: b should m4 or M3 ?];B[lp]BL[547.648]C[hungt1 [2k]: Look at L7?hungt1 [2k]: looks so niceIzaya1128 [4k]: and now w q3 :DRukis [2k]: why?Izaya1128 [4k]: seriosuly? Why?hungt1 [2k]: if k4 was a b stone, would be a bottle shapehungt1 [2k]: :))hungt1 [2k]: or horsE?];W[pq]WL[1166.14]C[pururun [3k]: w cut?Izaya1128 [4k]: q3 w is sente as well for whungt1 [2k]: manhungt1 [2k]: i think b is winninghungt1 [2k]: o6 Romati [4k]: B+50.5hungt1 [2k]: o6 and make your wall brolowenstein [12k]: i don't think b is winning];B[nn]BL[454.786]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: w will jsut extendhungt1 [2k]: its kind of heavy for wlongkui [-]: white extend black runs];W[mo]WL[1126.939];B[lo]BL[448.938];W[mn]WL[1123.379];B[mm]BL[447.672]C[JIeBuc [1d]: quite good shape];W[ln]WL[1111.982];B[kn]BL[444.78];W[on]WL[1110.887];B[lm]BL[444.366]C[hungt1 [2k]: excelente];W[nm]WL[1105.012]C[JIeBuc [1d]: i d something like d7 nowIzaya1128 [4k]: but then b dies in the bottom :/Rukis [2k]: good way to lose your bottomhungt1 [2k]: but m3 is kind of senteRukis [2k]: no it is..];B[lq]BL[364.755];W[gp]WL[1096.087]C[hungt1 [2k]: b win];B[gq]BL[359.055];W[hp]WL[1086.873]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: too early to say anything like that hunghungt1 [2k]: if some pro get b stones i think he can make a victorybipbipbip [11k]: lolRukis [2k]: hurray yoou made no sense :Dhungt1 [2k]: :-DRukis [2k]: plus anyone know how good dore's blitz skills are?hungt1 [2k]: i never see dore playing];B[io]BL[214.666]C[Euphony [2k]: It's not really blitz, it's 5/1min. byo-yomi];W[gn]WL[1079.088]C[Euphony [2k]: J5 too closeEuphony [2k]: better to chase whole group than cut off one stone.];B[gl]BL[167.368]C[pururun [3k]: dore won many of his rated games... i think he's quite stronggentoo [-]: needed something for l5 cutLowlander [2k]: j5 also defends the cutgentoo [-]: yesJIeBuc [1d]: that cut sucks];W[kr]WL[1037.232]C[bluetable [-]: going for the killEuphony [2k]: yes... didn't look very closely at that cut. I see J5 is good for that. o.OAlexei [11k]: can they see the comments in a teaching game?JIeBuc [1d]: yKamina [10k]: YesDBraymer [16k]: Yespururun [3k]: yes of course they canpururun [3k]: so don't forget to behave ;)Luixz [10k?]: j3 Loxios [1d]: Yu-gi-oh wins :)];B[ip]BL[60]OB[5]C[Lowlander [2k]: very clever for a 4k, respect];W[lr]WL[943.548]C[JIeBuc [1d]: againt 3p i d play my best toox0000 [-]: can b give up 4 stones?Izaya1128 [4k]: ?];B[mr]BL[60]OB[5]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: he  can just take the w stone no problemlearnfast [2d]: :)];W[hq]WL[898.883]C[pok [1k]: w can aim at l5 no ?lowenstein [12k]: 7 black stones dead on the right, right?Izaya1128 [4k]: yeahpok [1k]: yeslongkui [-]: at least white has a base nowlongkui [-]: well mighttttttttttt: [29k]: no handicap?longkui [-]: if black chooses the right variationOdysseu9s [6k]: 2 stonesRukis [2k]: 2stoneshungt1 [2k]: wich one is harderx0000 [-]: wow 29khungt1 [2k]: chess or go?Euphony [2k]: fake 29kIzaya1128 [4k]: gox0000 [-]: oh noEuphony [2k]: just a guest.lowenstein [12k]: as a chest master, go is harder.x0000 [-]: no real 29k these days..Izaya1128 [4k]: lol go is harder period.];B[jq]BL[60]OB[3]C[pok [1k]: w must go out nowtttttttttt: to partytttttttttt: b is doing fine actuallyhungt1 [2k]: i told yahungt1 [2k]: b is pro];W[dn]WL[783.924]C[Euphony [2k]: this is a teaching game. =)Rukis [2k]: ^];B[dl]BL[60]OB[3]C[tttttttttt: d8 very good moveIzaya1128 [4k]: lol i bet if w was actually trying b wouldnt stand a chanceIkra [2k]: Who is Dore ?Euphony [2k]: but Dore is playing better than 4kyu, imhoRukis [2k]: the one playing the game.....Dlayn [6k]: dore is blackCommune [5k]: Izaya of course not.myspeed [2k]: pro 4kCommune [5k]: Netiher would StarStorm3 the 4dIzaya1128 [4k]: well Dore is a very strong SDK...almost never loses eitherRukis [2k]: Rukis would stand a chance :DCommune [5k]: It's a teaching game.Dlayn [6k]: dore is a baby dragon cardCommune [5k]: So it's irrelevent to say something like that.Izaya1128 [4k]: I'd like to see Yellowbell face breakfast ];W[ep]WL[699.032];B[eq]BL[60]OB[3];W[jr]WL[689.5]C[lowenstein [12k]: hmm why k2?hungt1 [2k]: what is the  chess rating for a guy like 1d in go kgs?Dlayn [6k]: depends on if the play chess lolCommune [5k]: uses k4 ajiCommune [5k]: black cannot j2tttttttttt: c6 ];B[do]BL[60]OB[3]C[pok [1k]: with k2 white aim at living now, or if b respond, have an eyepok [1k]: later];W[iq]WL[654.467]C[Euphony [2k]: hung, I started a discussion about that on 19x19 forum.tttttttttt: d5 bery goodEuphony [2k]: It is here : http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7325pok [1k]: well whit might live nowtttttttttt: I think b needs to c6 ];B[hr]BL[60]OB[3]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: k5?tttttttttt: h2 is not good imo];W[ir]WL[621.48]C[lowenstein [12k]: well even if white lives, black has big corner and good moyoCommune [5k]: if white lives like this thoughtttttttttt: let him liveCommune [5k]: blacks middle group is under attac againCommune [5k]: will have to be carefultttttttttt: just take c6tttttttttt: b mid group is strong];B[gr]BL[60]OB[3]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: now k5?Commune [5k]: l3 senteCommune [5k]: n3 Commune [5k]: flase];W[jo]WL[587.489]C[Commune [5k]: possible forcing moves that white might get laterRomain3008 [5k]: euphony how much is 2000 FIDE in go then ?Euphony [2k]: it's total speculation. It all depends what assumption you make as a starting point, Romain.Izaya1128 [4k]: i honestly dont think it's possible to even compare chess ranks to go like that];B[in]BL[60]OB[3]C[Euphony [2k]: the conclusion I came up with was around 2dan KGS with my assumptions.Romain3008 [5k]: honestly 1700 UFSC for 1 d seems too small];W[kq]WL[574.806]C[Illyria [?]: well, you can compare EGF ELO to standard go rankings];B[ko]BL[60]OB[3];W[hm]WL[563.493]C[lowenstein [12k]: h7 annoyinglowenstein [12k]: pretty good movepururun [3k]: i got pawned easily in windows chess using easiest level >.<Euphony [2k]: romain, which is too small? You think 1dan = 1955 USCF or so?Romain3008 [5k]: mhhhRomain3008 [5k]: don't knowRomain3008 [5k]: go is nieuw for meRomain3008 [5k]: not chesspururun [3k]: now that i noticed, M3 group doesn't have eye yet];B[il]BL[60]OB[2]C[klausP [7d?]: i wondered about that too];W[hl]WL[545.384];B[hk]BL[60]OB[2];W[im]WL[542.276]C[klausP [7d?]: mow to translate elo 2300 to EGD GoRRomain3008 [5k]: because 1800 ain't that strong];B[jn]BL[60]OB[2]C[Romain3008 [5k]: in my opinionRomain3008 [5k]: and 1d isIllyria [?]: 2300 in EGF is about 3d];W[en]WL[480.689];B[jl]BL[60]OB[2]C[Euphony [2k]: klaus, did you check my link? In my assumption, 2300 FIDE ~= 6dan KGS, so should be able to calculate from there.lowenstein [12k]: i'm 2024 in chess and 12k in go so...Euphony [2k]: Like I said total speculation, but it's a starting point for discussion.Illyria [?]: http://senseis.xmp.net/?EloRating];W[bn]WL[439.364]C[Darelo [21k?]: why u even try to compare go to chess?lowenstein [12k]: why no?klausP [7d?]: thx Euphonylowenstein [12k]: not*];B[fo]BL[60]OB[2]C[FFFF: i bet w will win this oneFFFF: i've got some strange feelingTurnipsi [1d]: this is a good moveRomain3008 [5k]: lllyria rating looks more reasonable to meFFFF: it just annoys w a little, but there is no significant cutFFFF: and w can live on the side, plus aim to invade the corner];W[eo]WL[324.292];B[fp]BL[60]OB[2]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: w's lost  imo];W[el]WL[315.554]C[lowenstein [12k]: i disagreeFFFF: yeah, w is lostFFFF: poor wiceweasel [-]: w lost tail onlyGotIt [6k]: h6?hungt1 [2k]: hmmmapple789 [9k]: g5];B[go]BL[60]OB[2];W[dk]WL[312.274]C[huglindien [1k]: g9 or f6 ?FFFF: wow, w is going really easy on himFFFF: he would not play this way against kghin for instanceEvaugh [2k]: Its a teaching game];B[ck]BL[60]OB[2]C[Romain3008 [5k]: if L4 white dead ?Illyria [?]: yes];W[cj]WL[287.138]C[josekin [?]: White K2 group is already deadIllyria [?]: well, w's already deadhungt1 [2k]: i am just backhungt1 [2k]: but b is winning ???FFFF: w is dead there already, since l4 or j1 (or m1) are miai or however you write thatjyka [2k]: k2 il asliveNicolaiHel [3k?]: only fing annoyin is that u cant look at previous movesjyka [2k]: but gote liveNicolaiHel [3k?]: wif kgs on androidjyka [2k]: better to play on boardFFFF: how?NicolaiHel [3k?]: goddammn];B[dj]BL[60]OB[2]C[hungt1 [2k]: can't believeEuphony [2k]: nicolai, click options -> view offline.hungt1 [2k]: the first kyu promoted to 1p so fasthungt1 [2k]: :oooIzaya1128 [4k]: lol];W[ek]WL[269.586]C[FFFF: how can you live there jyka?];B[ci]BL[60]OB[2]C[NicolaiHel [3k?]: there are no further optionshungt1 [2k]: i need androidNicolaiHel [3k?]: hahahaNicolaiHel [3k?]: i thought the sameNicolaiHel [3k?]: i ve been watchin atleat 5 games per dayhungt1 [2k]: hahahahungt1 [2k]: hey i am at 7th winning strenght and i did not get promoted!];W[bj]WL[223.029]C[NicolaiHel [3k?]: its good for the opening and josekihungt1 [2k]: this is unfair!];B[bi]BL[60]OB[2]C[FFFF: how's the android client by the way?];W[di]WL[215.82]C[NicolaiHel [3k?]: quite nicehungt1 [2k]: its greatNicolaiHel [3k?]: its eitzer smartgo on iphonehungt1 [2k]: but wait for the html clienthungt1 [2k]: its being develop-edNicolaiHel [3k?]: or kgs on androidhungt1 [2k]: can i play kgs on iphone?FFFF: i thought about buying it, but it doesn't seem convinient to play go in cell phonesFFFF: html5?hungt1 [2k]: FFFF , try some hugeness phonehungt1 [2k]: like galaxy s3NicolaiHel [3k?]: yeah but watchin is niceIzaya1128 [4k]: actually i used to play on KGs all the time on my android. Then i got an iphone];B[ej]BL[60]OB[2];W[fj]WL[212.663]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: so that was a sad day];B[ei]BL[60]OB[2]C[TblKBA [1d]: 10'' tablet is good];W[bk]WL[211.324]C[FFFF: i have nitro hd. i think that the screen is as big as galaxy IIhungt1 [2k]: but izaya can u play on igs?NicolaiHel [3k?]: get smartgohungt1 [2k]: iphone is goodNicolaiHel [3k?]: its the best digital teacher there isIzaya1128 [4k]: i dont like IGS's UI on iphoneNicolaiHel [3k?]: no apple sucks wif clientsFFFF: i'll check smartgo. thankslearnfast [2d]: heh];B[fi]BL[60]OB[2]C[hungt1 [2k]: the first 4kyu to beat a pro in even gamehungt1 [2k]: he will be like rapyuta, a legendFFFF: rapyuta?];W[dh]WL[178.436]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: its not evenFFFF: and w is giving him free presents, like santa clausponno [8k?]: it isnt evenhungt1 [2k]: :DIzaya1128 [4k]: do you mean Laputa?hungt1 [2k]: ahhahaha izaya];B[cg]BL[60]OB[2]C[hungt1 [2k]: i get it];W[cq]WL[174.346]C[FFFF: who is laputa?hungt1 [2k]: man laputa is a bad word in spanish];B[dq]BL[60]OB[2]C[hungt1 [2k]: lmaoFFFF: lolponno [8k?]: myiazaki cartoonIzaya1128 [4k]: Watch miyazakiAntiHero [4k]: C3 was pretty sharpIzaya1128 [4k]: ponno...hungt1 [2k]: its called la putaIzaya1128 [4k]: you just made a no-noFFFF: i think i saw myiazakiFFFF: great teacher myiazaki?klausP [7d?]: actually white cant lose this, he would lose to much reputation];W[cp]WL[138.621]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: It is no cartoon. It is animeFFFF: if it's what i'm thinking of, it's quite funnyponno [8k?]: anime=cartoonFFFF: anime is a sort of cartoon if i'm not mistakenVclubFates [-]: f6 Izaya1128 [4k]: lol. what if at the very last second he wins then a troll face appears on all our monitorsIzaya1128 [4k]: Stillhungt1 [2k]: lolIzaya1128 [4k]: There is a differenceFFFF: klaus - review the game, breakfast gave him lot of free treats];B[co]BL[60]OB[2]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: It is derogatory to call anime a cartoon];W[bo]WL[135.236]C[FFFF: it's notIzaya1128 [4k]: yesIzaya1128 [4k]: it isIllyria [?]: w isn't going to lose this gameFFFF: it's like the smurfs, but no anti-semitic and with strange color hair and oversized.. hmm.. body partshungt1 [2k]: b should pay a 9p to finish this game and would be embarasting for breakfast to losehungt1 [2k]: jk];B[cr]BL[60]OB[2];W[br]WL[132.722];B[bq]BL[60]OB[2]C[hungt1 [2k]: was a bad joke];W[bp]WL[128.019]C[FFFF: it was nice actuallyhungt1 [2k]: well thx];B[bs]BL[60]OB[2];W[aq]WL[111.209]C[FFFF: and like they say earlier, it's a teaching game. w is obviously not aiming to play at his besthungt1 [2k]: FFFF, is your nickname related to final fantasy or so?];B[fn]BL[60]OB[2];W[fm]WL[108.062]C[hungt1 [2k]: soo many F's];B[gm]BL[60]OB[2]C[jyka [2k]: b is bad];W[gk]WL[102.771];B[hn]BL[60]OB[2]C[Romeo [3d]: ^ real?];W[hj]WL[60.109]C[hungt1 [2k]: i think i will remember this L7 move foreverhungt1 [2k]: the kyu who played the honinbo move...hungt1 [2k]: maybe i can write a book about it or a mangaxDragon [?]: its almost like a pro is playing a 4k.sinojos [6k]: so much talking during teaching game. and all by three or four people...Izaya1128 [4k]: lolIllyria [?]: b's influence is nullified nowIllyria [?]: so sad];B[eg]BL[60]OB[2];W[re]WL[52.022];B[qe]BL[60]OB[2];W[rf]WL[49.197]C[hungt1 [2k]: everybody should Control+click at L7, and check the result b get after he played m4hungt1 [2k]: The kyu who understand the shusaku move...hungt1 [2k]: good history to make];B[lc]BL[60]OB[2]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: It was coincedence lol];W[fb]WL[37.359]C[jyka [2k]: lee couchetteFFFF: lol, not related to final fantasyhungt1 [2k]: Maybe dore should think in start to make a go carrerhungt1 [2k]: get serious at gohungt1 [2k]: and be a great pro like cho chikun?];B[pf]BL[60]OB[2]C[Euphony [2k]: not coincidence. Such things don't happen in go. Breakfast controlled things, and dore attempted to use that stone.];W[pg]WL[33.637]C[apple789 [9k]: coincidences definitely happen in goEuphony [2k]: At the most, you can say, Dore didn't foresee that sequence, or didn't plan for it. But it's not coincidence.hungt1 [2k]: how he did notjyka [2k]: lord stak is herehungt1 [2k]: it was fixed perfect];B[og]BL[60]OB[2]C[jyka [2k]: my precious];W[qc]WL[31.544];B[qd]BL[60]OB[2];W[of]WL[30.02];B[pe]BL[60]OB[2];W[ph]WL[29.098]C[hungt1 [2k]: my precious ring? Euphony [2k]: Coincidence implies there is no meaning behind the incident, but there is meaning here.apple789 [9k]: what if a computer played randomly and played that moveapple789 [9k]: does it still have meaning?];B[jd]BL[60]OB[2];W[ic]WL[15.351]C[hungt1 [2k]: what if 10 professionals, like top ones like lee sedol says, the l7 was the only move?Izaya1128 [4k]: chance happening: something that happens by chance in a surprising or remarkable waychance happening: the definition of coincedence. So yes it was a coincdenceEuphony [2k]: That would be random, but it would have meaning, imo, because it is go. It would have meaning for the opponent for sureRukis [2k]: there are no coincedencesIzaya1128 [4k]: oops it accidentely pasted the beginning of the definition at the end XDEuphony [2k]: I'm just saying go is different because there is always meaning behind a move.hungt1 [2k]: someone study go history for a job?Izaya1128 [4k]: lolIzaya1128 [4k]: Yes there are coincedencesRomeo [3d]: Instead of focusing on weird moves like L7 you better focus on basics at kyu level. Srsly.Rukis [2k]: ^Izaya1128 [4k]: agreed];B[ng]BL[60]OB[1]C[hungt1 [2k]: but moves like L7 is like fairy tales, we need more things like that :/FFFF: or give a 9d to play a move once in a while];W[kd]WL[6.154]C[FFFF: to slip in a move :)Romeo [3d]: B lost whole bottom right because of bad reading/lack of knowledge of correct josekibaduk8d: l7 is for what?];B[kc]BL[60]OB[1]C[Romeo [3d]: And you keep talking about L7hungt1 [2k]: but i saw some of shusaku on his movehungt1 [2k]: maybe he is saihungt1 [2k]: i am not toya akira anywayxPillow [4k]: did he opt for no handicapsbaduk8d: 2 handiIzaya1128 [4k]: i think you are reading WAY too much into this HungtRukis [2k]: if he was sai or akira Breakfast would have lost];W[je]WL[60]OW[5]C[jyka [2k]: who is l7, everybody talk only about himEuphony [2k]: good point, Romeo.baduk8d: is akira that good?FFFF: why do you want to toy akira?baduk8d: akira doesnt seem that good to me, hes probably like my levelFFFF: this is a family safe place, just a reminderhungt1 [2k]: archaic styleRukis [2k]: ... baduk were talking about the anime];B[ld]BL[60]OB[1]C[Euphony [2k]: I was asking good questions and focussing on the game, until the chat distracted me...baduk8d: lolhungt1 [2k]: lol];W[id]WL[60]OW[5]C[hungt1 [2k]: without imagination we are nothing];B[ik]BL[60]OB[1]C[hungt1 [2k]: b is doing quite wellbaduk8d: or w is going easy on him];W[da]WL[60]OW[5]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: Yes, but there is such a thing as over imagination. Making something that is way too overcomplicated when a simple thing would have sufficed in the first place.hungt1 [2k]: a b2 is doneFFFF: w needs so good tesuji now to expand his potential territory and that's itRukis [2k]: depends on your on definition of complicationhungt1 [2k]: FFFF is making me wanting to play final fantasy i don't know whybaduk8d: but yeah i bet on bsinojos [6k]: point of teaching is not to humiliate opponent, but to teach him somethingRomeo [3d]: Pro can make as many points as he wants in yose =)FFFF: seemsa gottish move];B[cb]BL[60]OB[1]C[apple789 [9k]: why d19baduk8d: sinojos i cant really do that. i dont try to humiliate, i just have an agressive styleRomeo [3d]: d19 is sentebaduk8d: and if i played passively id be the one thats humiliatedhungt1 [2k]: what is humiliatexPillow [4k]: i always kill as mercilessly as possible when i teachbaduk8d: because i dont know how to use a passive stylehungt1 [2k]: someonebaduk8d: xpillow same hereRukis [2k]: c19 was better move herehungt1 [2k]: check my third top game];W[me]WL[60]OW[5]C[hungt1 [2k]: and see what is a annoying stylebaduk8d: hungt humiliate=when you win by so many points your opponent looks bad];B[le]BL[60]OB[1]C[Rukis [2k]: well either way b doesnt get sente];W[mg]WL[60]OW[5];B[nf]BL[60]OB[1];W[mf]WL[60]OW[5]C[hungt1 [2k]: but hungt1 [2k]: baduk8d, isnt that playing your best?];B[ni]BL[60]OB[1]C[FFFF: w is doing high dan complicated tesujis, lolbaduk8d: yes but in a teaching game your supposed to hold back so your opponent who is usually at least 9 stones weaker has a chance];W[kg]WL[60]OW[5]C[baduk8d: basically your supposed to play less agressivelyhungt1 [2k]: i had a teacher who likes to humiliate me all the timehungt1 [2k]: today i don't trust in no one, even in real lifebaduk8d: me too];B[kf]BL[60]OB[1];W[jg]WL[60]OW[5]C[hungt1 [2k]: and i have physicologic and grammar problemsbaduk8d: you seem alrightFFFF: dirty fantasy hungt. you seen that too in those cartoons?Rukis [2k]: english does that to peopleEuphony [2k]: hung, you have problems with logic in physics?hungt1 [2k]: no i am good in thisbaduk8d: but yeah, i once had a 9d teacherbaduk8d: and basically killed everythingFFFF: me tooFFFF: i had a 9d teacher. i slained him];B[jf]BL[60]OB[1]C[hungt1 [2k]: but i had a 10kyu teacherhungt1 [2k]: i was 22khungt1 [2k]: he humiliated me for at least 25 times];W[if]WL[60]OW[5]C[baduk8d: and then you became 10k toobaduk8d: xDhungt1 [2k]: by 0 pointshungt1 [2k]: i get nothing FFFF: it is not the humiliation you are looking forFFFF: how can you attain 0 points? i mean 3-3 and there is already a living group];B[ig]BL[60]OB[1]C[baduk8d: it is possible trust meRomeo [3d]: c19, btw, is not preferred in that shape.Romeo [3d]: C19 is not as sente as d19baduk8d: ive been both the one with 0 points and the one with 361 points];W[gi]WL[60]OW[5]C[Rukis [2k]: i said c19 for for bhungt1 [2k]: when i started to play even to him, he blocked and delet me at the messenger and on go, and then he desapear and never played me again, cus he did not want to be beatenRukis [2k]: not white...];B[ih]BL[60]OB[1];W[ji]WL[60]OW[5]C[hungt1 [2k]: :0FFFF: it's only a game..baduk8d: LOL hungthungt1 [2k]: lolFFFF: you lose, you winRomeo [3d]: After c19 c18 e19 b19 d19 b can ignore, and it's worth about 5 pntsFFFF: no place for egobaduk8d: typical kyuRomeo [3d]: But d19 b can't ignore for surebaduk8d: and dan as welljyka [2k]:  w only test b ];B[ii]BL[60]OB[1]C[FFFF: i mean. you know how kghin got so strong at such a young age?];W[ij]WL[60]OW[5]C[baduk8d: he started early?FFFF: no. by being asian!Izaya1128 [4k]: LOLEuphony [2k]: great racism now...];B[jj]BL[60]OB[1]C[baduk8d: i wouldnt consider that racism, id consider that just a stereotype jokeFFFF: it's not racism. it's complimenting himbaduk8d: i mean im asian and im not offended];W[kj]WL[60]OW[5]C[FFFF: wish i was at his level, regardless in what ageEuphony [2k]: ok, yes you're right stereotype joke... but it is flirting on the edge of dangerous...hungt1 [2k]: lets start the topic, being asian already!];B[jh]BL[60]OB[1];W[jk]WL[60]OW[5];B[kh]BL[60]OB[1];W[mi]WL[60]OW[5]C[FFFF: w is not trying to kill or to attain points, just to annoy b a littlehungt1 [2k]: lolhungt1 [2k]: b winshungt1 [2k]: not the game, but for playing the L7];B[lg]BL[60]OB[1];W[mh]WL[60]OW[5]C[pururun [3k]: strong bEuphony [2k]: The review is where the substance will be, because white is playing like a kyu.];B[oi]BL[60]OB[1]C[FFFF: not for playing L7, but for being an unicorn!jyka [2k]: b is not strong, w play a teach game];W[ai]WL[60]OW[5]C[Euphony [2k]: well like a teaching game, not really like a kyu...Izaya1128 [4k]: well b is strong...for a 4 kyubaduk8d: isnt b;s last move rather slowhungt1 [2k]: b should be 1kyubaduk8d: m12 looked fine to meIzaya1128 [4k]: well...he's not THAT strong lolhungt1 [2k]: lolIzaya1128 [4k]: that's a full three stones];B[qj]BL[60]OB[1]C[hungt1 [2k]: r10 fightnining spirit];W[rj]WL[60]OW[5]C[Rukis [2k]: dang b is just leading in yosehungt1 [2k]: fightningbaduk8d: whats a full 3 stones?hungt1 [2k]: he wanted to promote the word fullIzaya1128 [4k]: hungt said b is a 1 kyu lolbaduk8d: i think he could be];B[pj]BL[60]OB[1]C[baduk8d: hard to tell from one gameRukis [2k]: how is r10 fighting? its called reducing];W[qk]WL[60]OW[5]C[baduk8d: c12hungt1 [2k]: well, he played L7, i can retire go, he got better than me :/];B[lj]BL[60]OB[1];W[mj]WL[60]OW[5]C[Romeo [3d]: Not sure if trolling..];B[lk]BL[60]OB[1]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: why do you guys think L7 is the end all be all move?baduk8d: no just not bothering to read];W[nk]WL[60]OW[5];B[pi]BL[60]OB[1];W[rh]WL[60]OW[5]C[Romeo [3d]: Nobody thinks that except for hung, lzaya];B[bh]BL[60]OB[1];W[ca]WL[60]OW[5]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: Ok good.hungt1 [2k]: i am optimistbaduk8d: t19 alsohungt1 [2k]: =)];B[kb]BL[60]OB[1]C[baduk8d: best tesuji ever];W[bb]WL[60]OW[5]C[Izaya1128 [4k]: LOLbaduk8d: its worth -1 points];B[bc]BL[60]OB[1]C[jyka [2k]: and w is not to goodbluetable [-]: i like this resultFFFF: now that's a nice move];W[db]WL[60]OW[5]C[jyka [2k]: is "3p" but not really 3pjyka [2k]: this tittle was a jokehungt1 [2k]: why not];B[cc]BL[60]OB[1]C[hungt1 [2k]: 0obaduk8d: why do you say soFFFF: breakfast is quite strong. look at his gamesIzaya1128 [4k]: jyka...please stop...there is nothing more in go that I hate more than what you are doing now];W[oc]WL[60]OW[5]C[jyka [2k]: just say the trueFFFF: see his teaching games against 7d-9dpururun [3k]: b will get killed if he makes mistake here at top rightjyka [2k]: see his game in tournamentRukis [2k]: no b is finehungt1 [2k]: pururunRukis [2k]: playing solid];B[pc]BL[60]OB[1]C[hungt1 [2k]: b2 bomber can't be killedjyka [2k]: loost vs 6/7 d hungt1 [2k]: this is impossibrujyka [2k]: and he is 3pjyka [2k]: lolIzaya1128 [4k]: I hate it when high kyu or low dans criticize pros or high dans by saying they are not what they are or are weak...you have no right to criticize them. pururun [3k]: ooh >.<baduk8d: izaya ppl say that about my 8d];W[nd]WL[60]OW[5]C[baduk8d: right hungt1baduk8d: ?baduk8d: lol];B[od]BL[60]OB[1]C[baduk8d: jk];W[mc]WL[60]OW[5]C[Rukis [2k]: because your not >.> your just a guess who marked their name like that -.-gacua [1d]: E7 is the highlight of the game](;B[nb]BL[60]OB[1]C[Rukis [2k]: o.o wow];W[mb]WL[60]OW[5]C[baduk8d: ....baduk8d: youve never played mejyka [2k]: lolEuphony [2k]: wow black in troubleRomeo [3d]: Afaik Breakfast is good at teaching, and that's the only thing that matters in a "teaching" game.Izaya1128 [4k]: Why don't you register baduk8d?baduk8d: i have another account but i wont tell you the namepururun [3k]: b must choose one];B[ob]BL[60]OB[1]C[Rukis [2k]: because your not a high dan :p];W[ne]WL[60]OW[5]C[jyka [2k]: really ? ];B[oe]BL[60]OB[1];W[md]WL[60]OW[5]C[jyka [2k]: my life is not go baduk8d: i use this account because i want privacy];B[hf]BL[60]OB[1]C[jyka [2k]: so i comment what i seeIzaya1128 [4k]: b died?Romeo [3d]: 8 dans never talk, so you're fake =)Izaya1128 [4k]: almost at least.Rukis [2k]: ^jyka [2k]: b is good, that true, but is not a tournament game baduk8d: romeo you talkbaduk8d: so you must be fake too :PRomeo [3d]: Im a lowly 3dais [1k]: jyka are you not 2 kyu?Romeo [3d]: Up to 5d we talkbaduk8d: and why cant 8d talk?Rukis [2k]: strangely high dans dont talk much :obaduk8d: it would be really painful to be quietbaduk8d: rukis i do];W[dr]WL[60]OW[5]C[Romeo [3d]: No one says they can't, it's just that they don't.Romeo [3d]: Usuallybaduk8d: i talk more than a 1kjyka [2k]: not too hard to up dan Rukis [2k]: i only know of a couple who do ];B[ia]BL[60]OB[1]C[jyka [2k]: i don't play enough to have this leveljyka [2k]: that allRomeo [3d]: Imo, that's because instead of kibitzing they do useful stuff, like studying.. or watcing TV, I dunno.sinojos [6k]: censor half a dozen or so and enjoy the game in relative silence. what remains is usually a better level of discussion];W[he]WL[60]OW[5];B[eb]BL[60]OB[1];W[ea]WL[60]OW[5];B[ga]BL[60]OB[1];W[gb]WL[60]OW[5]C[Rukis [2k]: sinojo];B[ha]BL[60]OB[1]C[Rukis [2k]: you could just move the chat box up];W[fa]WL[60]OW[5]C[Rukis [2k]: if you dont like the chat];B[gf]BL[60]OB[1]C[jyka [2k]: its a free game boysbaduk8d: l15baduk8d: jyka all pro games arebaduk8d: pros cant play ranked on kgsjyka [2k]: anyone can play like that is an free gameRomeo [3d]: Well, this just turned funRomeo [3d]: White could die =pbaduk8d: l15jyka [2k]: and know w is dead];W[fg]WL[60]OW[5]C[jyka [2k]: joke Rukis [2k]: pros can play ranked games on hereAsiuKC [-]: koRukis [2k]: their just not labeled projyka [2k]: F14 and deadxPillow [4k]: theyreIzaya1128 [4k]: is he forgetting about m11?>jyka [2k]: tsumegobaduk8d: yes but this ko good for w because if b lose he m14Euphony [2k]: ko?](;B[ff]BL[60]OB[1]C[jyka [2k]: its dead brojyka [2k]: lets seeIzaya1128 [4k]: e13?Izaya1128 [4k]: i mean d13];W[ke]WL[60]OW[5];B[ie]BL[60]OB[1]C[Euphony [2k]: yes!];W[be]WL[60]OW[5]C[AntiHero [4k]: start the ko!Euphony [2k]: I like Black's style.Euphony [2k]: o.opururun [3k]: yeaaaaaa ko fight.... but not manliness one];B[ce]BL[60]OB[1];W[if]WL[60]OW[5]C[jyka [2k]: b cant win this ko jyka [2k]: lost so much heremartin3141 [-]: c6leman [1k]: f8 ];B[cn]BL[60]OB[1];W[lf]WL[60]OW[5];B[ie]BL[60]OB[1];W[jd]WL[60]OW[5]C[leman [1k]: c8 Marek [5d]: c8Marek [5d]: yesFFFF: game overRomeo [3d]: Too bad, b forgot about e12pururun [3k]: oooh >.< the game is getting fierce];B[cl]BL[60]OB[1]C[Romeo [3d]: e12 e11 dead];W[eh]WL[60]OW[5]C[jyka [2k]: noobjyka [2k]: you dont see that jyka [2k]: ahaahbaduk8d: e7myspeed [2k]: this good for wRomeo [3d]: =(vrnBugatti [8k]: w WINpururun [3k]: e7 seems cuteRomeo [3d]: Can't forget such thingsmyspeed [2k]: B crash];B[em]BL[60]OB[1]C[FFFF: e7 FFFF: goodbaduk8d: yay he played my moveIzaya1128 [4k]: it doesnt work :/ais [1k]: d7 FFFF: sente connectionRukis [2k]: b needs to ko on bottombreakfast [3p]: sorryDore [4k]: npvrnBugatti [8k]: ))];W[dg]WL[60]OW[4]C[ais [1k]: f9 ];B[bl]BL[60]OB[1]C[pururun [3k]: oooohEuphony [2k]: Dore could be watching chat for C8 and then E7. This could become collaborative game.leman [1k]: m11 coming];W[li]WL[60]OW[4]C[leman [1k]: =))gacua [1d]: ;)pururun [3k]: crumbling......leman [1k]: i'm almost 3p  =)Rukis [2k]: g13 f12 h12 j14 ais [1k]: =)))Rukis [2k]: another ko but for life D:<gacua [1d]: B must E15l9xl9 [-]: h16 ?able [3k]: h16?AntiHero [4k]: b was doing so well. breakfast always plays seemingly too simple of moves];B[gg]BL[60]OB[1];W[fh]WL[60]OW[4]C[gacua [1d]: G12, I betpururun [3k]: hey guys don't give the answer :Djyka [2k]: b know he can resign ? baduk8d: g12baduk8d: jyka nobody resigns a teaching gameFFFF: lol, w stepped up a littlebreakfast [3p]: thxgacua [1d]: lol badukRukis [2k]: was ko dore :,Dore [4k]: thanksjyka [2k]: baduk Rukis [2k]: ggAntiHero [4k]: nice gamebreakfast [3p]: B played like 5-6djyka [2k]: you see, i say ot, he do it ])(;B[gh]C[breakfast [3p]: best way to defend];W[ke];B[ie];W[be];B[ce];W[if];B[ri]C[breakfast [3p]: and ko threat herebreakfast [3p]: biggest one](;W[lf];B[ie]C[bipbipbip [11k]: so he is a fake 4k];W[jd];B[si])(;W[si];B[ie]C[breakfast [3p]: now B can ignore any threatRukis [2k]: thats it breakfast sayed he played like so no more tounrament for you D:<Dore [4k]: okleman [1k]: l8 ?Rak [5k]: n9breakfast [3p]: that's all, see you again!Rukis [2k]: byepururun [3k]: thxgacua [1d]: or b just connect at M14breakfast [3p]: thxgacua [1d]: Thanks for the gamexPillow [4k]: o.oEuphony [2k]: short review... ok.xPillow [4k]: that was quickpururun [3k]: imo bottom right is a tesuji :DIzaya1128 [4k]: Dore you have become semi-famous now lolDore [4k]: thanksDore [4k]: ^^Izaya1128 [4k]: what were you thinking when youi played l7?pururun [3k]: *wasDore [4k]: just trying to reduce himRukis [2k]: well the move worked really well for youDore [4k]: but corner was hugeIzaya1128 [4k]: yeah lolhungt1 [2k]: heyhungt1 [2k]: L7hungt1 [2k]: shusaku movehungt1 [2k]: the kyu who played shusaku movehungt1 [2k]: ::::i will write a book about thishungt1 [2k]: ok?alark32 [12k]: my good nessalark32 [12k]: Dore O_o'alark32 [12k]: beast])))(;B[ob]C[breakfast [3p]: can take herebreakfast [3p]: and get topxPillow [4k]: breakfast such a flattererDore [4k]: ok]))