(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]RU[Chinese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[60]OT[5x20 byo-yomi]PW[Magister]PB[lztest]DT[2018-03-08]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[Magister [-]: GTP Engine for Magister (white): AlphaGo Zero version v43 Built on Mar 01 2018 03:24:27 (2349244421)MessAround [2k]: :D]RE[白胜黑];B[qd]BL[26.645]C[Mneme [2k]: :)];W[cp]WL[39.617];B[qp]BL[13.248]C[kmm9288 [3k]: I'm guessing this person is using leela zero against it?lowiq50 [2k]: where is leelaz slow?];W[dc]WL[19.458]C[lowiq50 [2k]: or pet?];B[eq]BL[3.396];W[dn]WL[3.979]C[pet [2k]: Not at home yet, sorry];B[ce]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: LZ? ];W[fd]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: How many playouts of lz?];B[np]BL[20]OB[5];W[oc]WL[20]OW[5]C[Mneme [2k]: the number is not an epoch time at least];B[pf]BL[20]OB[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: the battle of the purest zero's];W[lc]WL[20]OW[5];B[ch]BL[20]OB[5];W[qk]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: If she is the real AGZ, LZ has no chancelowiq50 [2k]: yeah];B[qi]BL[20]OB[5];W[qn]WL[20]OW[5];B[hq]BL[20]OB[5]C[pet [2k]: Style looks simular Nils [3d]: we dont even know if b is L0];W[dq]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: YeahGNSSS [2d?]: Sighlztest: 10 000 playouts];B[ep]BL[20]OB[5]C[Nils [3d]: maybe both are L0 :-) SomeLurker [?]: On the internet, no one knows you're a dog.GNSSS [2d?]: Wowlowiq50 [2k]: leela zero];W[ck]WL[20]OW[5];B[kd]BL[20]OB[5]C[pet [2k]: Yes];W[kc]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Lurker :))];B[jd]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Right];W[cd]WL[20]OW[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: idk the only way to find out if w is the real thing is to have ke jie or park junghwan play it...];B[de]BL[20]OB[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: or fine artsprouts [2d]: how many playouts does petgo3 have?GNSSS [2d?]: "Lurker" make me think about Ke Jie];W[hd]WL[20]OW[5]C[pet [2k]: About 10000];B[pl]BL[20]OB[5]C[sprouts [2d]: ah, so its same];W[me]WL[20]OW[5]C[pet [2k]: B is lz];B[ql]BL[20]OB[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: b's winrate?Nils [3d]: how do you know?];W[qq]WL[20]OW[5];B[pq]BL[20]OB[5]C[Epsilion [5k]: lztest is name];W[rp]WL[20]OW[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: mean no reason to lie about testint leela zero];B[rq]BL[20]OB[5];W[qr]WL[20]OW[5];B[ro]BL[20]OB[5];W[pp]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: 10k playouts mean lz is about 7-8d];B[qo]BL[20]OB[5];W[oq]WL[20]OW[5];B[po]BL[20]OB[5]C[pet [2k]: Roughly yes];W[op]WL[20]OW[5];B[oo]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: If Magister can beat it...];W[nq]WL[20]OW[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: marcin's leelazeroT beat];B[mp]BL[20]OB[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: fanweiqi 7d yesterdayGNSSS [2d?]: Maybe the real AGZ];W[ph]WL[20]OW[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: and fanweiqi took 3 stones and still lost a game to leelazerot];B[mq]BL[20]OB[5];W[rr]WL[20]OW[5]C[pet [2k]: B looks not to bad.. .GNSSS [2d?]: Wowlowiq50 [2k]: LeelaZeroT only does 4000 playouts in 15 seconds];B[dm]BL[20]OB[5]C[sprouts [2d]: 7d took 3h against Leela Zero? Ouo];W[en]WL[20]OW[5]C[pet [2k]: Depends on situation];B[cm]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: W very look a like agz];W[cn]WL[20]OW[5];B[em]BL[20]OB[5];W[fm]WL[20]OW[5];B[ek]BL[20]OB[5];W[bm]WL[20]OW[5]C[First [1k]: w is weaker than I thought];B[fl]BL[20]OB[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: so if W crushes b, w might be as strong as alphago zero];W[cl]WL[20]OW[5];B[pc]BL[20]OB[5];W[od]WL[20]OW[5]C[Epsilion [5k]: alphago doesn't crush, just always winslowiq50 [2k]: what's b's winrate now?First [1k]: 5];B[ge]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: W is very damn strong First];W[gd]WL[20]OW[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: i mean if winrate is <30% after 30 mvoesfrozensoul [9d?]: maybe itll be on when im homelowiq50 [2k]: that's "crushing"pet [2k]: Lztest could give us the winratefrozensoul [9d?]: ill take a crack at itGNSSS [2d?]: Oh ];B[mf]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Nicepet [2k]: IolSomeLurker [?]: Great :)First [1k]: frozensoul is my friend];W[qh]WL[20]OW[5]C[Epsilion [5k]: yes frozen-sensei];B[qf]BL[20]OB[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: they reviewed ke jie vs alphago games, and in game 1 and 3 ke jie's winrate was like under 30% after 30 moves];W[pk]WL[20]OW[5];B[le]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: I saw him when he is 4d kgs, now he is 9d, sigh];W[rl]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: I'm still 2d];B[rj]BL[20]OB[5];W[ol]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: I mean frozen];B[pm]BL[20]OB[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: w looks good];W[om]WL[20]OW[5]C[sprouts [2d]: I would be so dead in this moyo];B[pn]BL[20]OB[5]C[frozensoul [9d?]: well iv been under ranked on kgs for a whileGNSSS [2d?]: W looks very goodGNSSS [2d?]: Ohfrozensoul [9d?]: so the growth isnt as dramatic as it seems haha];W[mi]WL[20]OW[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: okay w might be the real thing];B[rk]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: I see ^^frozensoul [9d?]: i was 5d back in 2014-2015lowiq50 [2k]: how do I find b's winrate?];W[lf]WL[20]OW[5]C[frozensoul [9d?]: countGNSSS [2d?]: Wowfrozensoul [9d?]: lolpet [2k]: W ahead?];B[mg]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Yup];W[kf]WL[20]OW[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: i don't trust my own evaluation for bots this strong];B[ie]BL[20]OB[5];W[jc]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Why I feel some de javu];B[bn]BL[20]OB[5];W[el]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Look like "Sai" is on the internetGNSSS [2d?]: :))frozensoul [9d?]: i lost to a pro level ailowiq50 [2k]: it's funny just as all the super strong bots appear];B[dl]BL[20]OB[5]C[frozensoul [9d?]: so hopefully ill lose to this one too :Dlowiq50 [2k]: Magister returns to show who's the boss];W[dk]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Hikaru no go for someone dk what i said];B[el]BL[20]OB[5];W[bl]WL[20]OW[5]C[Schachus12 [1k]: interesting that he squeezes at that timinglowiq50 [2k]: looks over for b...];B[co]BL[20]OB[5]C[Epsilion [5k]: i make e8 shape all the timeEpsilion [5k]: :D];W[do]WL[20]OW[5];B[ne]BL[20]OB[5];W[md]WL[20]OW[5]C[Epsilion [5k]: that means i'm as strong as LZGNSSS [2d?]: Look like a child and a giantFirst [1k]: stop it];B[dp]BL[20]OB[5]C[Mneme [2k]: at least the show is wonderfulFirst [1k]: frozen is my friendFirst [1k]: and he has lived for many yearsSchachus12 [1k]: I wouldnt be able to tell whether or not this is over for black];W[bo]WL[20]OW[5];B[id]BL[20]OB[5]C[frozensoul [9d?]: black is collapsed in the centerGNSSS [2d?]: Yuplztest: 38%];W[ic]WL[20]OW[5]C[frozensoul [9d?]: positionally white has an advantagGNSSS [2d?]: So fastfrozensoul [9d?]: advantage*lztest: magister's net is different];B[cq]BL[20]OB[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: oh 38% is not too badGNSSS [2d?]: Not even 150 movesSchachus12 [1k]: ok, I trust 9d, but somehow also 2k is saying thatlztest: It's possible it's alphago ^^Nils [3d]: but w is still weak on the right side];W[ej]WL[20]OW[5];B[gm]BL[20]OB[5];W[fn]WL[20]OW[5]C[Schachus12 [1k]: and that is about my level and I know I couldnt tellGNSSS [2d?]: Hmfrozensoul [9d?]: white is flexiblefrozensoul [9d?]: hard to attack it all];B[gk]BL[20]OB[5]C[Nils [3d]: I know - just saying it aint over yetSchachus12 [1k]: as nils says, white does have week stonesfrozensoul [9d?]: when blacks west is also weak + heavyfrozensoul [9d?]: theres no good attackkmm9288 [3k]: does lz still have ladder problems?];W[ef]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: What will you do if the right thing is here and plays everyday?];B[eh]BL[20]OB[5]C[frozensoul [9d?]: play it every day];W[hl]WL[20]OW[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: lz still has ladder problems in handicap gamesGNSSS [2d?]: 5200 elo oh yeahpet [2k]: 35% is almost Obfrozensoul [9d?]: pfft like im gunna turn down playing any alphago variant haha];B[gl]BL[20]OB[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: not sure about even cuz nobody plays her even anymore];W[bq]WL[20]OW[5]C[First [1k]: w is fineFirst [1k]: just gu lik this];B[nk]BL[20]OB[5]C[kmm9288 [3k]: if alphago was here I wouldn't be surpised if it brought pros back to kgsfrozensoul [9d?]: better for me tooGNSSS [2d?]: Yeah i think so too];W[ok]WL[20]OW[5]C[First [1k]: do we really want pro's though?frozensoul [9d?]: train for pros by beating prosfrozensoul [9d?]: sounds like a plan! :DGNSSS [2d?]: Nice];B[nj]BL[20]OB[5];W[ni]WL[20]OW[5];B[lk]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Hard for w nowMneme [2k]: looks whiteis close to deadGNSSS [2d?]: :3];W[pi]WL[20]OW[5];B[lh]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Show me your magic, AGZ];W[li]WL[20]OW[5];B[ki]BL[20]OB[5];W[mk]WL[20]OW[5];B[nl]BL[20]OB[5]C[First [1k]: I don't want ke jie hereFirst [1k]: he doesn't speak english];W[kj]WL[20]OW[5];B[ll]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: He can learn english :vkmm9288 [3k]: the more strong players the betterlowiq50 [2k]: why kgs ?lowiq50 [2k]: and not tygem or foxy?];W[qj]WL[20]OW[5]C[Mneme [2k]: oOEpsilion [5k]: they tested master here before];B[ri]BL[20]OB[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: all the top pros are on foxy right?Mneme [2k]: nearly alive];W[oj]WL[20]OW[5];B[lj]BL[20]OB[5];W[rh]WL[20]OW[5]C[Mneme [2k]: epsilon are you sure ?GNSSS [2d?]: Because gg is in UsA];B[rg]BL[20]OB[5]C[redreoicy [4d]: lz has ladder problems in even games also as of fc netlowiq50 [2k]: yeah but on KGS you can't get a 100-0 record against the best human players];W[ng]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: So kgs is da bestlztest: 25 %, time to resign];B[nf]BL[20]OB[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Too strong];W[og]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Even 7damtiskaw [?]: uh so I just got here, is there a concensus on the identity of Magister?GNSSS [2d?]: Play like a child];B[mh]BL[20]OB[5]C[lowiq50 [2k]: strong enough to be the real thing];W[nh]WL[20]OW[5]C[Mneme [2k]: there is consensus on nobody knowamtiskaw [?]: okTako [?]: it's not alphagozero];B[he]BL[20]OB[5];W[gn]WL[20]OW[5]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Why not?lowiq50 [2k]: it's strong enough to be deep zen I think?First [1k]: I agreeEpsilion [5k]: tako is jealous];B[hm]BL[20]OB[5]C[First [1k]: that it is not alphago by any means];W[fe]WL[20]OW[5];B[fg]BL[20]OB[5]C[Tako [?]: i'm to weak to be jealous :-)];W[fi]WL[20]OW[5];B[ff]BL[20]OB[4]C[GNSSS [2d?]: Damn too strong];W[di]WL[20]OW[5]C[lztest: thanksGNSSS [2d?]: If it is not, too bad for meEpsilion [5k]: damnlowiq50 [2k]: i think it's strong enough to be the real thingGNSSS [2d?]: I think so tooamtiskaw [?]: there are other bots it could be thoughlowiq50 [2k]: just not sure why they would test it on kgslowiq50 [2k]: maybe bensondarr?Tako [?]: why would Deepmind come here under magister ?GNSSS [2d?]: I dont think bensondarr can be this strongEpsilion [5k]: they tested master here beforeEpsilion [5k]: so why not?Tako [?]: they teste very few game and most of them or all ot them were privateGNSSS [2d?]: Let's view another gameTako [?]: testedGNSSS [2d?]: Now they test for commercial versionMGNSSS [2d?]: Version?Tako [?]: Deepming plans to sell Alphago Zero ?GNSSS [2d?]: IdkTako [?]: Deepmind])