(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]SO[gokifu.com]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.50]TM[300]OT[3x20 byo-yomi]PW[eku]PB[WH1114]WR[九段]BR[八段]DT[2011-06-12]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[eku [9d]: hiWH1114 [8d?]: hi]RE[白胜黑];B[qd]BL[288.447];W[dp]WL[297.548];B[pq]BL[283.642];W[dd]WL[295.752];B[oc]BL[279.573];W[po]WL[293.529];B[qo]BL[277.876];W[pp]WL[291.053];B[qp]BL[276.469];W[oq]WL[290.003];B[qn]BL[275.592];W[dj]WL[287.174];B[pr]BL[272.619];W[jp]WL[286.06];B[fc]BL[268.78]C[Javaness [3d]: hoshi madness];W[hd]WL[277.225];B[fe]BL[262.171];W[df]WL[275.105];B[db]BL[261.044];W[cc]WL[273.863];B[hb]BL[260.028];W[ge]WL[270.607];B[ff]BL[258.323];W[gc]WL[261.399];B[gb]BL[252.97];W[fd]WL[260.278];B[ed]BL[251.769];W[ec]WL[259.071];B[gd]BL[251.008]C[Tree [6k]: ko];W[pd]WL[257.526];B[hc]BL[248.853];W[pc]WL[255.558]C[hex3d4 [-]: lol they're savageSalieri [3k]: chirp chirpOotakamoku [1d]: w needed to prepare the ko maybe a bit more?];B[qc]BL[227.685];W[qb]WL[253.743];B[pe]BL[214.272];W[od]WL[251.358];B[rb]BL[209.089]C[karabos [1k]: he canotGluon [1k]: if i were white, i would be quite happy with this resultTree [6k]: why, black did not have a threat anyway];W[pb]WL[242.218]C[Egad [-]: ko is a dish best served raw];B[qf]BL[202.846]C[coti [1k]: yes, typical 9dan mistake];W[lc]WL[240.117]C[AdrianMonk [5d]: go eku!Aokame [3k?]: eku is cool];B[dc]BL[186.35];W[ee]WL[237.716];B[eb]BL[183.794]C[Salieri [3k]: prove it aokameihtkickppl [9k]: name eku stands for?];W[cn]WL[227.721]C[Fatality [4k]: f17 group looks cuteZenZen: b likes symmetryEgad [-]: educated kyu universityBushworm [1k?]: b could winJavaness [3d]: ielectric-kyutisch [11k]: ^ Egad [-]: its where he teachesdogbert [3d]: Mothman, coolWindGod [6k]: eku is a lot bettergrant: like a jet];B[er]BL[158.722];W[eq]WL[222.584];B[dq]BL[150.61]C[Portal2 [1d]: b looks good to me];W[cq]WL[209.073];B[dr]BL[148.904];W[fq]WL[207.888];B[bq]BL[147.565]C[shaguarhan [3k]: 苦肉计];W[cr]WL[204.746];B[cp]BL[145.219]C[ihtkickppl [9k]: eku stands for Eat and Kill U!];W[bp]WL[197.413]C[OneWarrior [1d]: lol];B[co]BL[143.527];W[br]WL[196.35]C[shaguarhan [3k]: 换点东西就行karabos [1k]: there sladder];B[do]BL[141.605];W[ep]WL[195.168]C[coti [1k]: b shape on top looks an allien];B[bo]BL[140.862];W[aq]WL[194.125];B[cl]BL[138.716]C[daladim [1d]: haha move 53];W[bj]WL[190.03]C[daladim [1d]: (sry didnt want to type the nickname)Fatality [4k]: it's a flowerGluon [1k]: black doesn't look that bad either...Kamyk [5d]: it's a frogSalieri [3k]: i don't look so bad eitherBushworm [1k?]: b is probly a provelther [3d]: lolhex3d4 [-]: b is probably fakevelther [3d]: probably notneed4speed [2k]: i dont wana type it toozum [-]: b top very common shape];B[cd]BL[89.214]C[Salieri [3k]: Bushworm i bet money he's notEgad [-]: everybody is either a pro or a kyu on kgsthesubjoke [6k]: I've hear dthat bushworm is provelther [3d]: W ahead];W[bn]WL[184.235]C[yakito [1k]: ouchsfgss [1d]: it's a banquethex3d4 [-]: kaboom];B[dn]BL[76.526]C[velther [3d]: this B can't be pro];W[dm]WL[181.618]C[Gluon [1k]: i woudn't bet on thatyakito [1k]: will hurt xDdaladim [1d]: c16 looked small compared to other pointsEgad [-]: hikaru went pro in 2 years, this B has timePortal2 [1d]: yes, doubted];B[fn]BL[57.134]C[Rocker [3d]: hot fuseki!];W[ao]WL[178.609];B[fo]BL[55.037]C[daladim [1d]: just like you rockaesaia10 [15k]: i think whites position is better because the center seems whitesvelther [3d]: c16 is big only because it sets up an invasion by removing eyespace];W[gp]WL[165.632]C[velther [3d]: but bottom was more critical an areaBlaubaer [5d]: b strong imoyakito [1k]: c11 ?karabos [1k]: interestinUberdude [4d?]: this group is sad though];B[ci]BL[33.259]C[yakito [1k]: heheGluon [1k]: yes this is definitely interesting];W[cj]WL[161.505]C[velther [3d]: i dont' see anything special from B yetvelther [3d]: just calm playK2R [8d?]: useless stones];B[ce]BL[15.215]C[ALLMINE [1k]: calm play is specialvelther [3d]: hard to think though that bottom is good outcome for B];W[cf]WL[158.196]C[Bushworm [1k?]: b is just confident that w cant have an effective atac on himRocker [3d]: thx dala sir!zum [-]: b stong invasion at c4];B[fl]BL[2.467]C[zum [-]: maximum damage];W[ek]WL[152.063]C[Kamyk [5d]: this is special ...daladim [1d]: ;)];B[lq]BL[20]OB[3];W[hk]WL[146.298]C[Salieri [3k]: lolWindGod [6k]: m3 painfulhex3d4 [-]: w is awesome];B[im]BL[20]OB[3]C[Bushworm [1k?]: b got a huge tenuki from botomTree [6k]: m3 really bad];W[lp]WL[138.072]C[velther [3d]: what huge tenukikarabos [1k]: its equal ,no?velther [3d]: m3 definitely not really bad lol];B[kq]BL[20]OB[3];W[kp]WL[135.265]C[yakito [1k]: =)velther [3d]: but maybe timing is questionableKamyk [5d]: b got a lot of tenuki and play very solid in 3xcornersWindGod [6k]: m3 not bad..Gluon [1k]: byoyomis are quick :(];B[jq]BL[20]OB[3];W[iq]WL[133.313]C[Tree [6k]: so its very badSalieri [3k]: m3 is like saying i can do whatever i wantKamyk [5d]: but got one weak groupUberdude [4d?]: one to go];B[ir]BL[20]OB[3];W[hq]WL[130.649]C[ALLMINE [1k]: you always have one weak group];B[mq]BL[20]OB[3];W[mp]WL[125.625]C[zum [-]: who?];B[np]BL[20]OB[3]C[ALLMINE [1k]: everyone];W[no]WL[123.083];B[jl]BL[20]OB[3];W[nq]WL[121.439]C[velther [3d]: b's style is similar to tygem style];B[nr]BL[20]OB[3]C[Kamyk [5d]: like b now :)hex3d4 [-]: bad ?yakito [1k]: i like b's tenukis ^^Aokame [3k?]: whats tygem style?Gluon [1k]: he's definitely goodBushworm [1k?]: weak groups are awesome when your oponent fails to gain anything from atacing itUberdude [4d?]: my last game on tygem my opponent played out a broken laddervelther [3d]: tygem style is very efficientKoizumi [6k]: eku is not japanese];W[jk]WL[91.913]C[Uberdude [4d?]: i was not impressedKoizumi [6k]: this is not the japanese style];B[kk]BL[20]OB[3];W[hm]WL[90.599]C[velther [3d]: nothing too risky, emphasis on territory at expense of influenceALLMINE [1k]: i think the client version tells you more than his style];B[hn]BL[20]OB[3]C[Mongoose11 [9k]: uberdude, not to any great effect?Lebensraum [13k]: what is tygem style?];W[il]WL[89.147]C[Kamyk [5d]: nice ];B[jm]BL[20]OB[3]C[Uberdude [4d?]: no, not lee sedol style];W[in]WL[85.597]C[Uberdude [4d?]: fail style];B[fk]BL[20]OB[3];W[gm]WL[63.723]C[velther [3d]: tygem style is highly efficient play, emphasis on territory over influence, also emphasis on joseki and known sequences (such as the top right after ko threat tenuki)];B[fm]BL[20]OB[3];W[gn]WL[62.227]C[zum [-]: h6 captured haha];B[fi]BL[20]OB[3]C[velther [3d]: whereas kgs style is speed and attack based];W[jj]WL[59.78]C[ALLMINE [1k]: i thought they disliked joseki on tygemthesubjoke [6k]: h6 ftw!];B[ll]BL[20]OB[3]C[zum [-]: kgs style???];W[ol]WL[55.134]C[velther [3d]: lol only in the mid dan and lower areasGluon [1k]: i thought kgs style and fail style were the samesensemaker [4d]: isnt tygem a server?Javaness [3d]: yes, everyone on kgs plays the sameneed4speed [2k]: highly efficient style i disagree, thats not a stylevelther [3d]: any 6d+ player on tygem will play the style i mentioned];B[li]BL[20]OB[3]C[Koizumi [6k]: tygem plays differentlyALLMINE [1k]: not any of themALLMINE [1k]: some of them];W[nf]WL[43.047]C[Kamyk [5d]: not any :DBushworm [1k?]: doo not argueALLMINE [1k]: you can only gebneralise about style a littlegrant: m8 badSalieri [3k]: velther sounds like he's a 9d in tygemSnC [2k]: b wants everywhere];B[eh]BL[20]OB[3]C[velther [3d]: efficiency is a style because it puts emphasis on moves that simply work, rather than shape moves. thus you get more non-shape moves more often];W[ch]WL[40.04]C[sfgss [1d]: why most people on KGS play blitz games?WindGod [6k]: b is pretty strongsh5kv [4d]: highly efficent style is misleading, the player that is more efficient wins the game so as you get stronger in go your play gets more efficentJavaness [3d]: but shape moves are efficientneed4speed [2k]: some 3d kgs is 6d tygem velther [3d]: shape moves are not always efficient given certain boardszum [-]: kgs style= lots of useless kibitz];B[pi]BL[20]OB[2]C[sensemaker [4d]: sounding corrent doesnt mean correctGluon [1k]: blitz is usual on kgs because of the kgs/fail style];W[ni]WL[35.127]C[velther [3d]: such as instances where empty triangle is the proper moveALLMINE [1k]: if they're not efficient they're not shape moves];B[kh]BL[20]OB[2]C[Shibooboo [7k]: blitz is primarily for pride i thinkTrue1 [10k]: shape moves are not played for making the board look more niceKamyk [5d]: b need to alive ];W[ih]WL[25.446]C[Kamyk [5d]: onlyTrue1 [10k]: theyre played because theyre goodALLMINE [1k]: blitz is primarily for fun];B[nk]BL[20]OB[2]C[Gluon [1k]: what is fun in blitz?need4speed [2k]: 8d tygem 5d kgs];W[oj]WL[21.055];B[ok]BL[20]OB[2];W[pj]WL[19.888];B[qi]BL[20]OB[2];W[pk]WL[18.241]C[Portal2 [1d]: difference cant be that much?];B[nl]BL[20]OB[2];W[pg]WL[9.736]C[ALLMINE [1k]: which kgs 5d is tygem 8d?need4speed [2k]: haruKorath [7k?]: lower ranks = the same as here?];B[qg]BL[20]OB[2]C[Gluon [1k]: winning on time? or playing some dumb moves? too many reasons to play blitzvelther [3d]: there is a difference between playing ONLY shape moves, and playing moves that simply work given the situations. many times u can make a non-shape move like some oddball contact move work if you've read it out. this is the current aura on tygem, where they read so much that you will see more contact play and offball non-shape moves, yet moves that work given the situationsneed4speed [2k]: so, looks like, tygem have a bottle neck in 8d rankBushworm [1k?]: system is differentKamyk [5d]: oh ohBushworm [1k?]: they have points for win unlike kgs];W[om]WL[20]OW[3]C[yakito [1k]: f10 doesnt work?ALLMINE [1k]: so tygem style is playing well?Portal2 [1d]: tl;drSalieri [3k]: why would you only make shape movesKamyk [5d]: my grats... like kibitz like You !];B[or]BL[20]OB[2]C[ALLMINE [1k]: the pros only make shape moves];W[mj]WL[20]OW[3]C[velther [3d]: an example is the kghin hutoshi game from last time, where hutoshi played the tick move and then the 2nd line contact move that you wouldn't consider as traditional shape move];B[nm]BL[20]OB[2]C[Kamyk [5d]: not only !Egad [-]: every move is a shape move, most of them are bad shape though];W[pn]WL[20]OW[3]C[Koizumi [6k]: is dashn baduk a nice server?thesubjoke [6k]: Egad winsWindGod [6k]: is b dead?Aokame [3k?]: velther, do you play tygem english client? is it same as the korean one?];B[nh]BL[20]OB[2]C[velther [3d]: tygem has multiple client versions];W[oh]WL[20]OW[3]C[velther [3d]: i play on the chinese oneALLMINE [1k]: egad removed his incredible rank in a show of humilityvelther [3d]: but i'm mostly in the korean 1 room];B[mh]BL[20]OB[2];W[oi]WL[20]OW[3]C[velther [3d]: since that's where all the 9ds hang outSalieri [3k]: egad is 7dan?Aokame [3k?]: is the english client the same?];B[lf]BL[20]OB[2];W[mk]WL[20]OW[3]C[ALLMINE [1k]: 8d last time I checkedDaKing123 [6k]: yeah why not?];B[kj]BL[20]OB[2]C[Aokame [3k?]: on tygem even 9d overplayvelther [3d]: it's the same, however i dislike the english client because they restrict games that have over 300 viewerswaxstar [3d]: f10 always a threat];W[jd]WL[20]OW[3]C[Aokame [3k?]: restrict?];B[if]BL[20]OB[2]C[Koizumi [6k]: i dont understand these movesvelther [3d]: as in, you can't enter and watch a game that has over 300 observersJavaness [3d]: black doesn't even see P3 is in atariJavaness [3d]: N00B];W[jg]WL[20]OW[3]C[Kamyk [5d]: i see dead groupsbloodninja [?]: lol];B[ke]BL[20]OB[2]C[hex3d4 [-]: kick the admin he's trollingAokame [3k?]: argh velterKoizumi [6k]: java p3 is small at the momentAokame [3k?]: tahst abd];W[je]WL[20]OW[3]C[velther [3d]: and since most of the top 9d games have like 400-700 viewers, it is very frustratingKoizumi [6k]: there will be a time for capture later];B[jf]BL[20]OB[2];W[kg]WL[20]OW[3]C[ALLMINE [1k]: b really likes his diagonal + knights move shape];B[lg]BL[20]OB[2];W[kf]WL[20]OW[3]C[velther [3d]: chinese client doesnt have that restriction, so i stick to the chinese client];B[ld]BL[20]OB[2];W[kd]WL[20]OW[3];B[le]BL[20]OB[2];W[mc]WL[20]OW[3];B[ii]BL[20]OB[2]C[AdrianMonk [5d]: you just have to be quick velther :)Blaubaer [5d]: wow];W[hi]WL[20]OW[3]C[velther [3d]: i'd rather not be quick and still get into those games with my chinese clienthex3d4 [-]: wowAdrianMonk [5d]: or you can create a relay];B[ji]BL[20]OB[2]C[velther [3d]: relay is not the samegrant: b danger];W[gh]WL[20]OW[3]C[velther [3d]: can't betTofu [5k]: there are usually relays of those games where over 300 people are watching anyway, its not a big dealFatality [4k]: p4 seems goteAdrianMonk [5d]: seems like the same moves to me ^^Salieri [3k]: whatSalieri [3k]: j13?];B[hg]BL[20]OB[2]C[AdrianMonk [5d]: betting is the most pointless thing in the world ^^WindGod [6k]: j13];W[gj]WL[20]OW[3]C[velther [3d]: betting is just extra funMongoose11 [9k]: h10?Salieri [3k]: what is going on];B[fj]BL[20]OB[2]C[WindGod [6k]: f10AdrianMonk [5d]: so you can bet on other serversALLMINE [1k]: b is winningvelther [3d]: plus tygem has integrated the money system to useful purposes, such as score estimator usage and suchAdrianMonk [5d]: with less obsBlaubaer [5d]: b loses f7?need4speed [2k]: you cant buy something with the betting points?];W[eg]WL[20]OW[3]C[yakito [1k]: oupsxevad [-]: nice blackWindGod [6k]: ouchvelther [3d]: but i want to watch the best games. and i want to bet on those games. this i cannot do with english clientxevad [-]: punish white!];B[fg]BL[20]OB[2];W[fh]WL[20]OW[3]C[Gluon [1k]: betting is about money, and money is about sadness];B[di]BL[20]OB[2]C[AdrianMonk [5d]: if you join the gaes on Korea II/III they never have that many obs and can still bet];W[bi]WL[20]OW[3]C[zum [-]: and sadness is about??Gluon [1k]: alcoholgrant: overGluon [1k]: so that's defintely cool];B[dg]BL[20]OB[2]C[WindGod [6k]: b res];W[ef]WL[20]OW[3]C[albbis [1k]: and alcohol costs moneybloodninja [?]: b fought wellvelther [3d]: but i want to be on the server where all the 9ds are so i can fan them and follow when they play and don't playvelther [3d]: this i can only do in korean 1 servercoldnight [1d]: deadAdrianMonk [5d]: true :)hex3d4 [-]: game overSalieri [3k]: sadness is mediocrityeku [9d]: thxgrant: b fight to dieSalieri [3k]: I absolve you allKamyk [5d]: one tenuki too muchWindGod [6k]: there is no thx?Blaubaer [5d]: ggPortal2 [1d]: it was quite fighting gamekoikeman [1d]: お疲れ様でしたGluon [1k]: ENCOREneed4speed [2k]: sandness is about a dessertAdrianMonk [5d]: latvian clientunk: ggAdrianMonk [5d]: interestingvelther [3d]: lol watAdrianMonk [5d]: see K2R 8d?velther [3d]: looks fakevelther [3d]: played 3d wih 4 stones and won on timeAdrianMonk [5d]: yes, i looked at the game, seemed he had pretty much caught upAdrianMonk [5d]: of course could be two clients open on one pc :pvelther [3d]: yaAdrianMonk [5d]: althoughAdrianMonk [5d]: http://www.europeangodatabase.eu/EGD/createalleuro3.php?country=LV&dgob=falsevelther [3d]: if fake had a calling card, it would be thatAdrianMonk [5d]: this doesnt fill me with optimismvelther [3d]: hahavelther [3d]: ohvelther [3d]: wh1114 playing a 5dvelther [3d]: i go watch ->])